Dolley Madison

I'm Walter Isaacson of the aspen institute and i'm here with lynne cheney author of james madison a life reconsidered tell us about Dolly Madison well she was so much fun to write about she's one of the most intriguing first ladies ever Madison fell in love with her after he saw her walking down the street she was beautiful statuesque well proportioned fair of skin ruby red lips the whole package and it was said that men stopped in the Philadelphia streets to wait for her to pass Madison was smitten and so he asked and this is an interesting thing about the 18th century everyone knew everyone else he asked Aaron Burr whom he had gone to college with to introduce them and so dolly wore her lovely mulberry dress and her gold glass beads and they were married a few months later she was recently widowed right that's right um her husband had died in the yellow fever epidemic that had engulfed Philadelphia in 1793 she had lost a child into but she had a child a little boy whom everyone called pain so she ends up being somebody who helps Madison's career in your book and she does it even just by entertaining and being nice and bringing people together explain that role well I'm not sure anymore that having a wife who entertains is that great a deal for a politician I think we make our decisions differently but in those days Washington was a truly miserable place there were few houses congressmen were crowded into boarding houses one of them said it was like being a bear that you hibernated with these people who talk nothing but politics the Madison's had a house dolly opened the doors and all the congressmen came that helped him in an electron even well that's her political genius is that she understood the importance of people not just regarding his intellect highly but of liking him and it was especially crucial because it was the Congress that made the presidential nomination and so that gave madison a real step forward in gaining the nomination in 1808 important of a roll back then and even today since you've been in public life do you think personal relationships like that are in smoothing over political issues I think they are important I think we shouldn't over value them though I hear people lament that there are fewer personal relationships in Washington now than there were when I first went there more than 40 years ago but i'm not sure that when it comes to governance of the country that it matters that much now when Dolly Madison entertained she even had her wednesday evenings lawns what were those well practically anybody could come if you knew the Madison's or if you knew somebody who knew the Madison's you could go into the White House which dolly had reconfigured in glorious ways it was beautiful to look at she was dressed in fantastic fashion you could show up with your friends you could make notes about it right it later it was a very open event that people really enjoy coming to you say she reconfigured the White House she worked with a great architect Benjamin latrobe right explain what she did to help create the White House and what she and Benjamin latrobe designed well they took Jefferson's office and turned it into the State Dining Room they turn which is still that way today is and they brought wonderful color into the White House which I think was a pretty stark place when the Madison's arrived they decorated what is today known as the red room with canary yellow fabric everywhere and Dolly sent the TRO bout to find her a piano fort and a guitar she wanted music at her wednesday evening soirees and they brought mirrors into the White House one of them in the Oval room had glass balls glittering on top of it and the Oval room called the Blue Room today was decorated with red velvet throughout so you know it wasn't as though she did what Jefferson did which was actually do some rebuilding but she did a lot of great decorating with the troves help you know we think of the scandalous Alicia's internet sites today that poke fun of politicians and say also to mean things about them mostly untrue as something new but that happened to her to for partisan and political reasons right you know it's just one of those things that you stick your head up and people begin to take shots at you and the shots at dolly not surprisingly because she was a woman had to do with her being a person of loose morals and this even a period in the news purrs and federalist congressman the few that were left you know wrote letters to one another about what a tarnished character she was and how this would hurt Madison being elected to a second term of course it didn't she was a great sucker to him and great help to him when it came to his personal life into his political life we must remember her from our school book days as saving the picture of Washington when the British come in in the war of 1812 how true is that well basically true she ordered the painting to be cut from its frame and then saw that it was taken away by a friend of hers from Maryland the thing that's interesting about that episode is that the letter that describes it is written in the present tense you know I did this and then I did that and oh dear sister the British are coming and I have to leave now it's pretty likely that dolly wrote that letter well after the fact she just understood though the drama of being able to present it as an immediate happening so dolly had a good sense of public relations public relations end of history but she was alone in the White House stand in terms of President Madison was there with the troops away from the White House and so she and the staff had to evacuate the White House on their own you know and that's an interesting thing about Madison he may be with Lincoln the only president who subjected himself to enemy fire you know Lincoln went and stood on the parapet and shots were fired at him but he went to bladensburg now I'm not sure it was sensible but he did it dolly meanwhile was alone at the White House waynesburg is in Maryland and that's where the British were coming from and they're about to burn Washington and so Dolly Madison helps evacuate the White House at that point well she stays she's one of the last to leave and her friends are urging her on finally a free black man came riding along shouting shouting the British are coming and you have to leave and she was very close to Jefferson we talked about all the salacious things there Jefferson had now we know a mistress Sally Hemings and that mistress had a son named Madison and in your book there's something about how dolly is involved in that you know Southern women generally tried to turn their faces the other way when it came two masters male sleeping with slave women and I just have the impression that dolly got tired one day of this and she understood that sally hemings was bearing Jefferson's children and she noted that Jefferson's children or that Sally Hemings children were all named after people important to Jefferson so she suggested to Sally Hemings that she named a new baby Madison it kind of resonates you know dolly knows what's going on she knows that it's appropriate name this little baby Madison because Sally's babies are named after people important to Jefferson the young man who reported this was Madison Hemings who was named after Madison but dolly had promised his mother a gift for naming the child Madison and the Sun reported the gift never appeared oh dear well we still love Dolly Madison anyway thank you very much