Main content
Proof some infinities are bigger than other infinities
Created by Vi Hart.
Want to join the conversation?
- Ok, a little help here. "Metaphorically Resonante" @1:11? So what is that exactly? Thanks, T.S.(29 votes)
- She is referencing The Fault in Our Stars. That is a quote from the book.(67 votes)
- at2:12in the video,she says that 5+6 is two numbers, and 12 is only 1.how do we know 2 numbers is more than 1?(18 votes)
- Even IF we were taught it, how do we know that this video is telling us the truth about infinity? Think about it. 5+6 is two numbers and 12 is one. It only counts when the number that is the product has two different numbers. 1+1 does equal two, but not bigger.(10 votes)
- what about big omega ^ big omega ^ big omega ^ big omega...(8 votes)
- It COULD not be a number or it COULD be a number. Vi says it isn't a number because of the box theory, but it doesn't really work like that. If so, you could actually disprove ALL types of infinty with the same concept.(2 votes)
- This is why, in her Anti-Pi Rant, the probability of getting a rational number if you threw a dart at the number line is 0, correct?(6 votes)
- Yes. While the number of real numbers is infinite, it is at least countably infinite (which is to say they can be ordered and predicted). Irrational numbers are uncountably infinite. So if you pick a real number r at random, the probability that r is rational is zero.(7 votes)
- At the end, VI said that some infinities just -->seem<-- smaller/bigger than other infinities.
So where is the proof that one infinity does NOT equal another?(5 votes)- Vi Hart is right because, well which is bigger 0.9999... or 0.8999...
EXACTLY!(0 votes)
- Cantor"s Diagonal Proof makes sense in another way: The total number of badly named so-called "real" numbers is 10^infinity in our counting system. An infinite list would have infinity numbers, so there are more badly named so-called "real" numbers than fit on an infinite list.(4 votes)
- That idea doesn't actually work, because there is no way to prove that 10 ^ ℵ0 !== ℵ0 until you perform Cantor's Diagonal Proof. This is because ℵ0 + 1 = ℵ0 and ℵ0*2 = ℵ0 and ℵ0^2 = ℵ0.(4 votes)
- If she wanted to find out the other infinity number than wouldn't she just have to add the alph infinities with the big infinities that are 10 times their size?(3 votes)
- The problem is that the supposed "big infinities" that are ten times the size of the alephs, are exactly the same infinity as those alephs, because you are free to reorder things however you want. And, adding the same infinity to itself will just give itself. So, that won't ever give a new infinity.(3 votes)
- I'm confused. Why does she skip from thing to thing to thing over and over and then prove something random?(2 votes)
- Can you take the factorial of an infinite set? Like, 'ב!'? That would be a very big number, but is it even possible to do that? Can you take the factorial of infinite sets of real numbers?(1 vote)
- What do you mean? You can take the factorial of the set, which is akin to taking the factorial of every element in the set and so doing create another infinite set. But if you mean taking the factorial of an infinite number then you can do that too. However you cannot take the factorial of the set of real numbers, because certain real numbers do not have a valid factorial. Ex: negatives.
Of course, you could also take the factorial of a cardinality of a set, which would give the cardinality of the set of ways to order the elements in your original set. I believe that you would get one higher beth cardinality than what you originally started with.(3 votes)
- 4:50So you can make a new irrational number, but can't you can still make a new natural number too: just add one to the previous one on the list?(2 votes)
Video transcript
Voiceover: Any sequence
you can come up with, whatever pattern looks fun. All your favorite celebrities
birthdays lead into end followed by random numbers, whatever. All of that plus every sequence
you can't come up with, each of those are the decimal places of a badly named so called real number and any of those sequences with one random digit changed is another real number. That's the thing most people don't realize about the set of all real numbers. It includes every possible
combination of digits extending infinitely among
aleph null decimal places. There's no last digit. The number of digits is
greater than any real number, any counting number which makes it an
infinite number of digits. Just barely an infinite number of digits because it's only barely greater than any finite number but even though it's only
the smallest possible infinity of digits. This infinity is still no joke. It's still big enough, that for example point nine repeating is
exactly precisely one and not epsilon less. You don't get that kind
of point nine repeating equals one action unless your infinity really is infinite. You may have heard that some infinities are bigger than other infinities. This is metaphorically resonant and all but whether infinity really exists or if anything can last forever or whether a life
contains infinite moments. Those aren't the kind of questions you can answer with math but if life does contain infinite moments, one for each real number time, that you can do math to. This time, we're not just
going to do metaphors. We're going to prove it. Understanding different infinities starts with some really basic questions like is five bigger than four. You learned that it is but how do you know? Because this many is more than this many, they're both just one
hand equal to each other except to fold it into
slightly different shapes. Unless you're already abstracting out the idea of numbers and how you learn they're suppose to work just as you learned a long life is supposed to be somehow
more than a short life rather than just a life equal to any other but folded into a different shape. Yeah, metaphorically resonate that. Is five and six bigger than 12? Five and six is two things after all and twelve is just one thing
and what about infinity? If I want to make up a
number bigger than infinity, how would I know whether
it really is bigger and not just the same infinity folded into a different shape? The way five plus five is just another shape for 10. One way to make a big number is to take a number of
numbers, meta numbers. This is where a box
containing five and six has two things and is
actually bigger than a box with only the number 12. You could take the number
of numbers from one to five and put them in a box and you'd have a box set of five or you could take the number of numbers that are five which is one or you could take the
number of counting numbers or the number of real numbers. It's kind of funny that the
number of counting numbers is not itself a counting number but an infinite number often referred to as aleph null. This size of infinity is usually
called countable infinity because it's like counting infinitely but I like James Grime's way of calling it listable infinity because
the usual counting numbers basically make an infinite list and many other numbers of
numbers are also listable. You can put all positive whole numbers on an infinite list like this. You can put all whole numbers
including negative ones by alternating. You can list all whole numbers along with all half way
points between them. You can even list all the rational numbers by cleverly going through
all possible combinations of one whole number divided
by another whole number. All countably infinite numbers of things, all aleph null. Countable infinity is like saying if I make an infinite
list of these things, I can list all the things. The weird thing is that it
seems like this definition should be obvious that no matter
how many things there are, of course you can list all of them. If your list is literally infinite but nope so back to the reals. Say you want to list all the real numbers. If you did, it could
start something like this but the specifics don't matter because we're about to prove that there's too many real numbers to fit even on an infinite list no matter how clever
you are at list finding. What matters is the
idea that you can create any real number you want, out of an infinite sequence of digits and we're going to use this
power to create a number that couldn't possibly be on the list no matter what the list is even though the list is infinite. All we need to do that is
construct a real number that isn't the first number on the list and isn't the second number on the list and isn't any number on the list no matter what the list is. Here's where I'm sure some
of you are like "Yes!" Cantor's diagonal proof. Indeed my friends,
that's what's going down. In the first number on the list, the first digit is one. If I make a new number
with a first digit is three then even the rest of
the digits are the same, there's no way my new number is equal to the first number on the list though the rest of the digits probably aren't all the same anyway. The second number on the
list does start with a three. We don't know if this new
number is the same or not yet but I can make sure my
new constructed number is not the second number on the list by making the second digit five or eight or whatever and I can make my number
not be the third number on the list by making the third digit five instead of three again. I mean the new number
was already different from the third number on the list but I don't even have to
check the other digits as long as I know that one of them definitely conflicts which comes in handy when I get to the 20 billion and oneth number on the list and I don't have to check
the first 20 billion digits against the 20 billion digits I've constructed so far to be sure that my new number is not the same as the 20 billion and oneth number. There's one digit in my number for every number on the list which means I can make
a way for my new number to not match every
single number on the list no matter what the list is. Which means there's more
real numbers than fit on an infinite list. This works no matter what the list is. Take the diagonal and
add two to every digit or add five or whatever. You can't actually sit down
and write an infinite list or infinite number though. Here's another way to think
about what's really going on. We're trying to create
a function that maps one set of numbers to another. You can map all the counting numbers to all the whole numbers with a simple minus one function or
to all the even numbers with a times two function and map all the even numbers back to all the counting numbers
with the inverse function division by two. You can map all the real
numbers between zero and one to all the real numbers
between zero and 10 by doing a times 10 function and find every number has a place to go, they match one to one. The question is, is there a function that maps every real number or even just the real
numbers between zero and one to a unique counting
number and vice versa. Cantor's diagonal proof
shows that any function that claims to math counting numbers and reals to each other
must fail somewhere. In fact you're not just
missing one more real number than fits on an infinite list or else you could just
add it to the beginning. There's not just another infinite list of numbers you're missing or else you could zipper
the lists together. You could take every digit on the diagonal and add either two or four to get infinite combinations of numbers that aren't on the list and you can make a function that maps those missing numbers to
the real numbers in binary. Of course the binary numbers are just another way of writing the reals which means an infinite
list of real numbers will quite literally
be missing all of them. Next to the infinity of the reals, the infinity of infinite list is actually mathematically
nothing which is nuts because countable infinity
is still super huge, it's infinite. The infinity of the reals is beyond that what can we indicated
with a simple dot, dot, dot, a bigger infinity, a
greater cardinal number. We've gone beyond aleph null. This is aleph one maybe. Yeah funny thing that turns out there's no way to tell how
much bigger this infinity is than aleph null. Just that it's bigger like
it could be the next step up or there might be other
sorts of infinites in between but which one of those is the case? It's kind of independent
of standard axioms. Awkward. But whatever it is, those are just two
relatively small infinities out of an infinite
number of aleph numbers. For every aleph number, there's
infinite ordinal numbers which I guess kind of are like infinities folded into different shapes and don't forget hyper real supernaturals, or reals, etcetera. I guess you could squeeze
some Beth numbers in there if you're into those axioms. I don't judge. Some of my best friends
use the axiom of choice. Anyway, some infinities are
bigger than other infinities but a mathematician would probably say something more like I don't know, there exists an aleph alpha and aleph beta where aleph alpha is greater than aleph beta or something which is perfectly true. Whether those different
sorts of infinities apply to something like
moments of time is unknown. What we do know is that if
life has infinite moments or infinite love or infinite being then a life twice as long still has exactly the same amount. Some infinities only look
bigger than other infinities and some infinities that seem very small are worth just as much as
infinities 10 times their size.