Question 1

I didn't get much from the explanation of the challenge problem or 3 (1/9) for the logarithm

Accepted Answer

One exponent rule is that b^-n=1/b^n. Thus for log3(1/9) you are solving 3^x=1/9. Since 3^2=9, 3^-2=1/9 and there's your answer, -2.

Question 2

How about *log base-2 of -8=3*? Is it therefore "_defined_"? I thought it that way because it can be written in  exponential form as (-2)^3=-8 ..... Can we then say that base (b) and argument (a) can be negative {and must simultaneously be at the same time...right? }............ :) since a *negative* integer raised to an *odd whole number* _is_ negative............

P.S. [Sorry if I made a mistake hahahahha was just curious. Anyways, I would really appreciate an explanation. Thanks in advance :) ]

Accepted Answer

Hey Ian John P. Alberba,

When we think about the case/situation you have presented, it can pass as _defined_. The only problem is that if instead of 3 it was a fraction, there would be a negative number under the square root. This is usually avoided because it becomes more complicated because we must use imaginary numbers to find the answer. Because of this there are no negative bases in logarithms.

Also, it is great to be curious. Keep asking these kinds of questions and testing the KA community.

Hope that helps!
- JK

Question 3

How in the world do the negative exponents work? I understand the concept with positive numbers but not negative ones.

Accepted Answer

Negative exponents are a way of writing powers of fractions or decimals without using a fraction or decimal. They tell us how many times to divide the base number. To simplify an expression with a negative exponent, you just flip the base number and exponent to the bottom of a fraction with a 1 on top. This is because division is the inverse operation of multiplication 1.

For example, 2^-3 is equal to 1/(2^3) which is equal to 1/8.

For example, 2^-3 is equal to 1/(2^3) which is equal to 1/8.

Question 4

How do you evaluate logarithms using a calculator?

Accepted Answer

A scientific calculator generally always has an ln (natural logarithm, or log base e) key.  From the change of base theorem, log base a of b = (ln b)/(ln a).  For example, you can calculate log base 3 of 5 by calculating (ln 5)/(ln 3) which should give approximately 1.465.  (Note that if your calculator also has a log key, another way to calculate log base 3 of 5 is to calculate (log 5)/(log 3).  You should still get about 1.465.)
Have a blessed, wonderful day!

Question 5

where are logarithms used in real life

Accepted Answer

Logarithms are used most often in scientific fields, especially in chemistry (in my personal experience). They're often used to calculate half-lives of radioactive substances, pH values of acidic and basic substances, and how fast certain chemical reactions take.

Apart from chemistry, they are used to calculate decibel scales, which measure the loudness noise levels of things all around this.

Apart from chemistry, they are used to calculate decibel scales, which measure the loudness noise levels of things all around this.

Question 6

what is the need of log ? like we already have exponents , so why log too ?

Accepted Answer

I gave this example elsewhere too, but I think it fits here too.

Say you want to go shopping and you don't have a personal vehicle. What would you do? Well, you'd hire a cab/Uber and go to the supermarket to get your stuff. Now, how would you come back? Clearly, you'll need a hire another cab/Uber which will get you back home.

Same logic here. Raising a number to an exponent is all well and good, but we need something to come back to the original number. Hence, logarithms came in the picture.

Question 7

If we have a question of log y (4) then y which can be any base equal to 4 can have 2 answers (2) and (-2) this contradicts the law that bases of logs should be positive, as we can see here base of this log can have both (2) and (-2).

Accepted Answer

The base of any logarithm must be greater than 0 and not = 1.  If the value is not greater than 0, the logarithmic graph would not be continues and it would have values that are not defined in the real number system.  And, the base can't be 1 because y=1^x is not an exponential equation.  It simplifies to y=1 a horizontal line.

If you have log_y(4), without more info, you can't determine the base. There are other base values that would work besides 2. 
log2(4) = 2
log4(4) = 1
log8(4) = 2/3
log16(4) = 1/2
log32(4) = 2/5
Those are just a few.  There are more.

Question 8

log1(1) have two answers? it can be 1 and also 0.

log1(1)=1 -> 1^1=1

log1(1)=0 -> 1^0=1

so log1(1)=1 and 0

?

Accepted Answer

Actually, there would be an infinite amount of answers. 1^2, 1^3, etc. are all equal to 1 too.
We don’t really define a log with base 1 because no matter how many times you multiply 1 by itself, you still get 1. So, if you wanted to evaluate it at any number besides 1, it would be undefined. And, like you pointed out, the answer is ambiguous at 1 too, so we don’t define log base 1.

Question 9

I didn't get the part where you said logarithms can't b can't be negative. i mean if we have negative integers with odd power then why cant it be written in logarithmic form ?
And secondly you said b cant be 1 so whats wrong with log with base 1 and power (a) 1?

Accepted Answer

Logarithms are undefined for base 1 because there exist no real power that we could raise one to that would give us a number other than 1. In other words:
1ˣ = 1
For all real 𝑥. We can never have 1ˣ = 2 or 1ˣ = 938 or 1ˣ = any number besides 1.
If the base of the logarithm is negative, then the function is not continuous. For instance, sure the logarithm is defined for even and odd powers of negative numbers (though even powers are positive and the odd powers a negative and this is a wild jumping behavior that will continue for all integers). However, what about values between the integers? For instance, what if I asked you what power I needed to raise -2 to in order to get 1/2? The answer is a complex number, and it can only be found with some knowledge of trigonometry and the de'Moivre's theorem. In other words, there are gaps between the integer powers where the function is only defined in the nonreal numbers. The only places where it is defined (in the real numbers) is for integer powers, and plotting just those clearly don't give a continuous curve.

Question 10

why isn't log(-8) with a base of -2 equal to 3?

Accepted Answer

Even though technically that is correct as an exponential, as a logarithm it is undefined. You cannot have a negative base in a logarithm, and here is why:
Keep in mind that the log(x), with any base, the output will be a real number no matter what as long as the input is >=0.

Let's have a hypothetical that f(x) = log-2(x) is a function. It's inverse is f(x) = (-2)^x . All integers will work fine, however, as a normal log can take in any *real* value and output any *real* value, let's put a fraction in the exponential.

(-2)^(1/2) = sqrt(-2). This is *not* a real number. Again, another fraction:
(-2)^(1/4) = cubert(-2). Again, not a real number.

If we were to graph this on the real plane (xy plane), the function would not be continuous as there would be outputs in the imaginary plane. So since although negative log bases can have a value for some integers, due to this rule, it makes neg log bases impossible.

hopefully that helps !

Logarithmic form		Exponential form
$\log_{2} (8) = 3$ ‍	$⟺$ ‍	$2^{3} = 8$ ‍
$\log_{3} (81) = 4$ ‍	$⟺$ ‍	$3^{4} = 81$ ‍
$\log_{5} (25) = 2$ ‍	$⟺$ ‍	$5^{2} = 25$ ‍

Restriction	Reasoning
$b > 0$ ‍	In an exponential function, the base $b$ ‍ is always defined to be positive.
$a > 0$ ‍	$\log_{b} (a) = c$ ‍ means that $b^{c} = a$ ‍. Because a positive number raised to any power is positive, meaning $b^{c} > 0$ ‍, it follows that $a > 0$ ‍.
$b \neq 1$ ‍	Suppose, for a moment, that $b$ ‍ could be $1$ ‍. Now consider the equation $\log_{1} (3) = x$ ‍. The equivalent exponential form would be $1^{x} = 3$ ‍. But this can never be true since $1$ ‍ to any power is always $1$ ‍. So, it follows that $b \neq 1$ ‍.

Name	Base	Regular notation	Special notation
Common logarithm	$10$ ‍	$\log_{10} (x)$ ‍	$\log (x)$ ‍
Natural logarithm	$e$ ‍	$\log_{e} (x)$ ‍	$\ln (x)$ ‍

Algebra 2

Course: Algebra 2 > Unit 8

Intro to Logarithms

What you should be familiar with before taking this lesson

What you will learn in this lesson

What is a logarithm?

Definition of a logarithm

A helpful note

Check your understanding

Evaluating logarithms

Check your understanding

Restrictions on the variables

Special logarithms

The common logarithm

The natural logarithm

Why are we studying logarithms?

What's next?

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