SPEAKER 1: We're in
the Prado in Madrid, and we're looking at Albrecht
Durer's self-portrait from 1498, where
he shows himself, for me, almost like a dandy. SPEAKER 2: He painted
this when he was 26, and that's what the inscription
says below the window. You can see that he's
proud of his looks and proud of his
clothes, and mostly proud of how he could paint. SPEAKER 1: It's so interesting
because he is creating himself here. But he's representing
himself not only in terms of his likeness, not
only in terms of the class that he's aspiring
to, not only in terms of his representation
of his own aesthetics in terms of his
choice of costume, but he's representing himself
as a painter as well, right? As a craftsman, as somebody
who is extraordinarily capable. And yet at the same time, he's
also negating that very ability by rendering himself not
in the guise of an artist, of a workman, but wearing
actually incredibly expensive kid gloves and very much not in
a workshop environment, but as if he were a nobleman. SPEAKER 2: Right. I mean, it's
important to remember that when an artist
paints a self-portrait, he's actually probably
looking in a mirror. And you know, he's got paint. He's got brushes in his hands. And he's in his studio,
and he's painting. So there's a real conscious
decision to remove those things and to show himself
in another way. And so the hands are
completely fabricated. SPEAKER 1: And yet
in some ways, this is still very much, for me, tied
to his identity as an artist. I think he's not only
representing himself, but he's representing
his abilities-- in a sense, a kind
of portfolio piece. SPEAKER 2: Laying claim
to art as something that is intellectual. SPEAKER 1: Ah, see,
that's the key, right? This notion that
painting is in fact, as you said, an intellectual
activity, not just the work of a craftsman,
of a cabinet maker. SPEAKER 2: Exactly. But something which happens
in the artist's mind, and therefore worthy
of a different kind and level of respect. And I think that's
very much here.