[MUSIC PLAYING] SPEAKER 1: Even in
the Renaissance, drawings were sometimes
works of art unto themselves. They weren't always preparatory. And we think that's the case
with the large scale drawing by Leonardo that is usually
given the title of the Virgin and Child with St.
Anne and St. John. And that's because
it's not perforated. SPEAKER 2: Right
Although it's unfinished. So it's status is a
little bit unclear. And it would have had tiny
dots or perforations in it so that that would
have allowed Leonardo to trace the outlines
of the figures so that you could transfer a
drawing to a panel or a wall to paint on. SPEAKER 1: Although using
Leonardo's technique is so different from
traditional, much more linear Renaissance
painting that that would be more problematic. You get the basic contours. But his construction
of the figure is so often simply
using chiaroscuro, or using light and shadow. SPEAKER 2: Sfumato. SPEAKER 1: Well, that's
because it's so soft and because it's so smoky. That idea of just
the line that would be traced by the perforations
seems sort of absurd. SPEAKER 2: Right. Yeah. He was much more interested
in these, very slow gradations from dark to light and then
moving back into dark again. So that is such a sense
of three dimensionality and monumentality
to these figures. SPEAKER 1: And
also an integration of the figures into a whole. The figures form
a kind of pyramid. They are so stable. And that's one of
the characteristics about Renaissance. SPEAKER 2: That
stability that would suggest that kind
of eternity that is appropriate for the subject
of these divine figures, so, go ahead. Did you want to say something? SPEAKER 1: Well,
just wanted to say that it is such an
interesting contrast. Because on the one
hand, you've got the sense of an
ideal perfection. This notion of the eternal,
and sort of the eternally spiritual. On the other hand,
there's such a kind of intimacy between figures,
between Anne and Mary, and between John and Christ. SPEAKER 2: That's very human. SPEAKER 1: That's
incredibly human and seems incredibly precious. And so sort of at odds with
the notion of the eternal. SPEAKER 2: Yeah. It's both. That's what Leonardo
does, right? He combines the
human and the divine. That's the definition
to me of what Leonardo accomplished
in High Renaissance. SPEAKER 1: There are all
these marvelous passages here. I mean, I just love
the way that Anne turns to Mary, who
sits on her lap. There's this kind of rhythm of
needs of the two women, right? SPEAKER 2: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: Down, and up
and down, and up again. It's almost musical
as it moves across. SPEAKER 2: It makes me feel
that Leonardo is certainly looking at classical sculpture. Because that so much
looks to me like drapery on ancient Greek
and Roman figures. SPEAKER 1: There is a sense of
the varied age of the figures. And you get a real sense of
Leonardo's process, especially when you look at the
contrast between Anne's face and her hand, which is so much
less finished and still so much more linear. SPEAKER 2: And
Anne is pointing up to communicate this idea that
this is part of God's plan, that Christ and his
future sacrifice is part of God's plan for
the salvation of mankind. SPEAKER 1: Look at the way in
which Christ's arm bends around and his finger's up
in blessing John. Actually it's continued
upward by Anne's fingers. SPEAKER 2: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: So that's
one continuous movement. In a sense Christ is literally
drawn up in Anne's gesture. SPEAKER 2: Well, and that
begins with the line from Mary's shoulder up through Christ
and then pointing up to God. SPEAKER 1: In fact,
you could actually begin that movement
with Anne's glance at-- SPEAKER 2: Right. SPEAKER 1: Mary continuing down
her shoulders, as you said, around her elbow, and then
up through Christ's arm SPEAKER 2: And
actually what we just did is a really
good example of what was so important to Leonardo,
which is that unification. Like, you can start
linking things together the longer you
look at the image. I mean, we can look at St.
John's glance up at Christ and then move up there to Mary's
looking at the Christ child. And then go back to Anne,
whose looking at Mary. SPEAKER 1: That's right. And it really does create
a pathway for her eyes. But all of which
lead toward Heaven, which is, of course, the
very point of the drawing. [MUSIC PLAYING]