Ancient Mediterranean + Europe
East and West Pediments, Temple of Aphaia, Aegina
East and West Pediments from the Temple of Aphaia, Aegina, Archaic/Early Classical Periods, c. 490-480 B.C.E. (Glyptothek, Munich) Speakers: Dr. Beth Harris & Dr. Steven Zucker. Created by Beth Harris and Steven Zucker.
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- At4:50How do they know that the archer is Paris? Is it the helmet?(20 votes)
- I couldn't find anything that confirmed with certainty that the figure is Paris, but the fact that Paris was an archer and how much this played into the story of the Trojan War probably has a lot to do with this conclusion. The archer was still seen as a more cowardly role than a hand-to-hand combatant, so they were generally portrayed far less in the artworks of the time. However, Paris' character was so integral to the story, that it makes it a lot easier to assume that he is the archer being featured.
I'm sorry I couldn't direct you to the direct source the narrators are using to confirm the identity. Hopefully that provides some insight though.(23 votes)
- Did the Greeks take any interest in the beauty of the female form? It seems remarkable that all the Greek nudes we have seen to this point have been male, which is very different from both more ancient and more modern analysis of the human body.(5 votes)
- Well, if one word were to describe the Greeks, 'heterosexual' would definitely not be it. It's well known that homosexual affairs were common and even expected in society. Older men admired the younger male body, and idealized the perfect version. In texts from this period (especially Plato) we can see that love for women was despised and viewed as 'common' while the love of the younger man was viewed as transcendent.
All in all, whatever becomes the focus of the male gaze becomes the main focus of beauty.
I suppose... Modern society does the same to female figures, because theirs is the form that men are attracted to sexually.
Hope that helps.(5 votes)
- There are holes that seem to have been almost drilled into the sculptures, (you can see it well at4:05on Athena, and5:53on the fallen warrior) where did they come from, and did they have a purpose?(4 votes)
- From the author:The holes originally contained lead that represented hair. Broken off bits of lead can still be seen in some of the photos we used in the video.(13 votes)
- From what I know, ancient Greek society valued men over women, with women being second class. Aristotle attributed the fall of Sparta to the freedom of its females. Why did this sexist society have a female goddess as its symbol of war and wisdom, and why did a city like Athens take its name from a female goddess, when they could have chosen Zeus, Poseidon, Ares, etc?(4 votes)
- Firstly, to call a society misogynistic, whether it is true or not, is not very helpful as it puts a value judgment into place. This makes the conversation about us and how we feel about a given society rather then how that society understood itself, which should be the main goal of our study of history. We are dealing with a hierarchical society in which it was assumed that a small group of people would rule over others. This included men ruling over women, but that was incidental. The fact that men could keep women subordinate while worshipping a goddess like Athena was not a contradiction. Medieval Christians did the same thing with the Virgin Mary. This kind of worship could even serve to harm women. There is a basic notion in feminist thought of the pedestal trap. We can have this idealized view of women based on our worship of Athena or Mary. We then look at real women, who can never live up to this ideal and decide that they are brainless hussies, who need to be kept under firm male control so that they don't undermine society.(5 votes)
- How do we know the West pediment sculptures were built 10 years before the East pediment sculptures? It seems like to finish the building ASAP, you'd build both sides and sculptures simultaneously (which if the East archer is shooting the warrior in the west, maybe the sculptures were all pre-planned). Were the same sculptors used on both sides?(6 votes)
- Remember, buildings in antiquity took much longer to build. Transporting materials and construction took much longer than we are used to. In the Middle Ages, some cathedrals took centuries to build! In light of this, a ten year gap doesn't seem unreasonable at all!(3 votes)
- It keeps showing that the west pediment was made in 490 and east in 480. Isn't the east pediment supposed to have a 'new' style?(1 vote)
- Remember this is B.C.E. (Before the Common Era) - so 490 BCE comes before 480 BCE.(9 votes)
- I find the idea that these sculpture were brightly and even garishly painted very interesting. Why do we not see more representations of these types of sculpture as they would actually have been seen in antiquity? When you see movies or paintings representing the time period everything is shown as a pristine white.(4 votes)
- It's hard to break that conception because we hardly ever see painted sculpture. Because of this, we're used to seeing them as blank marble.(1 vote)
- I am really impressed with how clever the composition of the West pediment is. If you pause the video at0:53, you can see how the positions of the different figures create triangles within the large triangle of the pediment: the figures of Athena standing up in a straight line and the two warriors lunging away from her form two triangles; so do the lunging figures and the guys they are attacking (only their feet are left); they again form triangles with the kneeling archers, etc. Would the fragmentary East pediment have been just as strictly geometrical, or did the increased naturalness of the body language entail a 'loss' of strong composition?(3 votes)
- Considering that the pediments were dated to within 10 years of each other, how did historians/archaeologists get to be so precise in dating them? Could they have been done in the same time or is 10 years the shortest time to separate the Archaic and Early Classical periods?(3 votes)
- What would they be painted with?(3 votes)
- They were probably painted with mashed up berries and other things.(0 votes)
(lighthearted music) Man: We're in the Glyphtothek in Munich. This is an extraordinary museum devoted to ancient Greek and Roman antiquities. Woman: That's all thanks to Prince Ludwig of Bavaria, who in the early 19th century, said he wanted to found a collection of antique works of sculpture, because, as he said, "We must also have in Munich "what in Rome in known as a museum." Man: I love that. Museum wasn't even a commonly used word. The idea of a public collection was just coming into being in Britain, in France, and here in Germany. Woman: Ludwig was ambitious for Munich; he wrote, "I will turn Munich into a city of the arts, so that no one can claim to know Germany who has not also seen Munich." Man: Art was a way of really putting a city on a map. It spoke to its cultural superiority. Ludwig put together an incredible collection. Woman: We're looking now at one of the great treasures of the museum, the sculptures from the pediment of the temple of Aphaia, on the island of Aegina, just off the coast of Greece. Man: This is an island that's visible from Athens, so it's very close to the Greek mainland; and we really shouldn't say 'pediment', we should say 'pediments'. Let's impact that just a little bit. On a Greek temple, imagine the Parthenon. This is a long structure, with a gable at either end that is above the column head. At either short end of the temple there is a low triangle. Historically, those were areas that were filled with sculpture. Woman: On the Temple of Aphaia there was a pediment on the east side and on the west side, on the two short ends of the temple. The sculptures that filled these pediments were discovered in the early 19th century when some German architects were surveying the ruins of the temple, and they were soon put on auction, and Ludwig was very pleased to acquire them for his new museum. Man: The pediment sculptures were not made at the same moment, and that makes them even more interesting, because it helps us see the evolution of Greek sculpture. The west pediment [with] earlier, and we think that those sculptures were carved when the temple was actually built, about 490 B.C.E. The east side were later, and what's really intresting is those older west sculptures are in the archaic tradition, but the east pediment sculptures are just taking on the characteristics of the style that we'll come to know as the classical. Woman: We can say it's an early moment of the classical for the sculptures on the east pediment. Man: It's this moment of transition, as the style is just really being invented. Woman: Now, the subject for both pediments was the Trojan war, the War between the Trojans and the Greeks. Man: Now, this war is really a mythic war, but we know about it because it is the subject of Homer's great epic poem, "The Iliad." Woman: Some of the heroes of the Trojan War were from the island of Aegina, so it makes sense that they would make an appearance on the pediment. Man: Let's start off by looking at the sculptures on the western pediment. In terms of being a space that gets filled with sculpture, a pediment is an awkward environment. Woman: It's incredibly awkward, because you have these two narrow areas of the triangle that are very hard to fill. One of the ways that you can do that is to have reclining figures. Man: That's right. It's almost as if the sculptures have to play limbo, they get lower and lower as you move to the edges. But, in this case, the sculptor has really been inventive, and has found a marvelous solution. In the very center of the pediment, on both the east and the west sides, we have a standing figure, noble, looking outward, the goddess Athena. Woman: Athena was known as the goddess of war, in addition to being the goddess of wisdom. Man: On the west pediment, we see Athena now holding a modern shaft that is meant to represent a spear that would have originally been there, perhaps in wood, more likely in bronze or some other metal. Woman: When we look at Athena, we see a figure who looks typically archaic in style. She is frontal, she's rather rigid, fairly symetrical, and there's a lineal quality to her drapery. She has that typical archaic smile that removes her from emotion, removes her from the everyday world. She seems like a transcendent goddess. Man: On either side of the standing Athena are two warriors, and they move outward. They're actually lunging with the spears. One has their shield facing us, one is turned in the other direction, the shield is facing away from us; but they move our eye in either direction outward with real energy, real velocity, and of course, they are both slightly lower since their knees are bent so that they fit under the eave of the gable. Woman: On either side of those figures, we see kneeling archers, who are shooting bows. Man: The archer on the left, we can actually identify as Paris, and we can see his cap is tied in the back, his weight is on one knee and on one heel. The bow is missing, but we can certainly see an arm movement that suggests that he was in the middle of loosing his arrow. Woman: Behind him, a striding figure with a weapon who's attacking a figure who's falling to the ground. Man: Look at the complexity of that group of three in the way in which they overlap. There's a real sense of energy. There's a real sense of dynamism. Just pretty extraordinary for the archaic moment. Woman: On the far left corner, another wounded figure just fits into that corner space. Man: Let's focus for a moment on the wounded warrior that is on the right side of the west pediment. You can see that he's fallen back. He's on his left hip and he's on his left elbow, and his right hand seems to be clutching, or perhaps trying to remove a spear that has wounded him. Woman: Let me stop you for a moment, because he doesn't really look like he's in the position of a wounded warrior. His knee is bent, it comes over his left leg, he's propped up on his left arm, and his right elbow comes up in a rather awkward way. This figure really doesn't seem believable in terms of what he's supposed to be doing, pulling this spear from his body. Man:That's right, this must be tremendously painful, and probably will kill him, and yet, look at his face; he still retains the archaic smile, but for all of this it's important to remember that this is not naturalism, this is not an attempt to render the feelings of the human body. This is a highly stylized [for a schematic] structure. Woman: In a way, the figure is a symbol more than a real figure; a symbol of a fallen warrior in the Trojan War. Man: One art historian is likened this figure to face painting, where there was an attempt often to raise torsos up so that you could see the full musculature in the entire front; so, this is not about naturalism, it's about revealing the body in a way. Woman: The same art historian likened this figure to a reclining kouros, and that's exactly how he looks. It's as though a standing kouros figure has been tipped over. This is so different than what we see on the east pediment, which dates from only about a decade or two later, where we see the beginnings of the classical style. Man: Let's go take a look. Now, the east pediment is much more fragmentary on the left side, but the one figure of the fallen soldier is in great condition, and it's so different from what we saw, the earlier archaic west facade. Woman: While this figure still has a bit of that archaic smile, everything else about the position of his body tells us that this is a wounded figure taking his last breath. Man: You can see that he is holding his sword with his right hand, but he's also trying to push himself back up, but he doesn't seem to be able to do it. His left arm is still in the shield, and he seems to be balancing himself. You know it's just a moment before that shield falls over with a bang. Woman: There's a sense that he's propping himself up, but he's also falling at the same time, lowering his body as he dies. Man: He's looking down at the ground, and his body is more mature than the other figure, it's also much more naturalistically rendered. We're seeing that origin of the classical tradition. Woman: In the archaic period, we see the hard divisions between the muscles and the parts of the body, outlines almost, to parts of the body, and here, one muscle flows into another, and there's a real sense of skin lying over a skeletal structure. Man: That's right. A moment ago, you had said that the archaic sculpture was nothing but really a set of symbols, and here it's as if the artist has actually observed a human body and thought about what it must be like for a figure to fall. Woman: Instead of having that back leg coming over the front leg in a very unnatural way, and instead of having that elbow lifted up, the right arm of the figure comes over his torso fully; there's no attempt to reveal the whole body tipped forward to us the way we had in the archaic figure. Man: Now look at the torso. Look at the muscles of the leg. This is a far, more complex rendering of the human body in a complex pose. Woman: Just like on the west pediment, as we look at the east pediment, we've got a central figure again, Athena. Man: To the right of Athena, we have figures that are much more in tact. We have a lunging figure, we saw that on the west pediment as well, who is in the process of impaling a man who has lost his helmet, his shield is falling off his arm, and he is tottering, he has lost his balance. Woman: He looks as though he's about to collapse. Man: We know he's lost his helmet because the young man who's in back of him who seems to be trying to aid him and running towards him, is holding a fragment that we know would have originally been his helmet. Woman: His body forms a diagonal in that lunge, and so it fits nicely into that triangular space of the pediment. Behind him is another archer just like we saw on the west pediment. Man: Archaeologists think that archer is actually the one who has hit the wounded warrior on the opposite side. Woman: The one who we were discussing before. Man: That's right. Woman: So, we have this wonderful unification of action among all of these figures on the east pediment. Man: We have this more complex narrative, even though the same story is being told. We have a much more complex musculature, much more careful attention to the human experience. This makes us ask what has changed? This just been a few years between these pediments, and yet they are so different. Woman: This is always the questions that art historians ask as we look at works of art that are separated not by a very long period of time, in this case. What has happened in the values of ancient Greek culture that has led them to represent the human figure so differently. Man: If you go back in Greek history, the Greeks were deeply influenced by monumental Egyptian sculpture. You can still get a sense of a trace of that in the archaic tradition, but now there's a sense of self-awareness. These are mobile figrues out in the world that are almost enacting human emotion, human expression, and human experience. That is so different from the idea of representation as symbolic, which it so informed earlier Greek art. Woman: In the classical period, we have figures who we can believe are part of a story, it's a story that we can begin to feel for them, we can sympathize with them as we watch them. This is a moement in ancient Greek history when the Greeks have just defeated the Persians in battle; this is an epic victory for Greek culture when many of the Greek city states united to fight their enemy, the Persians. Man: Right, this common enemy that really should have been victorious, the Persians should have won, it was a much larger army; and the Greeks knew it, and the fact that they were victorious suggested to them that there was a kind of order in the universe. Woman: There's a sense now that the world is into place that just operates arbitrarily according to the laws of the gods, but it's a place that the human mind, with its sense of the rational, can understand. Man: So, there is a much greater burden placed on the Greeks with this realization. They are now responsible for their own society. They're not part of a random order, they are part of an order that they actually devise. Woman: Art historians see the origins of the classical style in this historical moment. We have an obligation, even here in the 21st century, to try to put ourselves, even though it's an impossible task, in the minds of the ancient Greeks, and to truly understand these works of arts from their point of view. It's really important ot remember that these sculptures were painted just like all ancient Greek sculptures, and with very bright colors. Man: This completely destroys our image of Greek art. When we think about Greek art, we think about these pristine, brillian, white marble surfaces, and they were garish; they were yellow, they were blue, they were green. Woman: Art historians and archaeologists have done scientific analyses of these sculptures, and found traces and residues of pigments and been able to determine it pretty acurately, at least the red and blues that we find here in some of the geometric patterns. Man: It's so jarring for me to try to imagine these colors back, and it's not just that the figures themselves were painted, but the architectural spaces in which these figures were placed was painted as well. Woman: There are so many ways that we're not looking at these the way that the ancient Greeks did. First of all, these were outside in the open air. They were high up on a pediment on this island. Man: Certainly the color would have made it much easier to see these figures, would try to have been in the shade of architecture. There's another element that we can re-imagine, which is that these figures not only holding things that have since disappeared, they were holding spears, and bows and arrows, but they also had other pieces of metal work that have since been lost. There was hair, sometimes actually hanging like bangs over the forehead, and also long locks that came down and framed the faces. In this case, they were made out of lead, and we can actually see little pieces of the remaining lead that are still there, and so we know precisely where they came out of stone, and that would have helped, I think, create not these figures as single stone objects the way that we see them, but as these much more complex figures that interact with their architectural environments. Woman: Let's not forget, too, that these are temples. These are places of religious worship, and that they were homes to the gods, and that the central figure on both the east and west pediment is the goddess Athena; and of course, the Greek idea of gods and goddesses is entirely different from our own Judeo-Christian tradition. These are all important things to keep in mind as we look at the Greek sculptures in museums. (lighthearted music)