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Ancient Mediterranean + Europe
East and West Pediments, Temple of Aphaia, Aegina
East and West Pediments from the Temple of Aphaia, Aegina, Archaic/Early Classical Periods, c. 490-480 B.C.E. (Glyptothek, Munich) Speakers: Dr. Beth Harris & Dr. Steven Zucker. Created by Beth Harris and Steven Zucker.
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- AtHow do they know that the archer is Paris? Is it the helmet? 4:50(20 votes)
- I couldn't find anything that confirmed with certainty that the figure is Paris, but the fact that Paris was an archer and how much this played into the story of the Trojan War probably has a lot to do with this conclusion. The archer was still seen as a more cowardly role than a hand-to-hand combatant, so they were generally portrayed far less in the artworks of the time. However, Paris' character was so integral to the story, that it makes it a lot easier to assume that he is the archer being featured.
I'm sorry I couldn't direct you to the direct source the narrators are using to confirm the identity. Hopefully that provides some insight though.(23 votes)
- Did the Greeks take any interest in the beauty of the female form? It seems remarkable that all the Greek nudes we have seen to this point have been male, which is very different from both more ancient and more modern analysis of the human body.(5 votes)
- Well, if one word were to describe the Greeks, 'heterosexual' would definitely not be it. It's well known that homosexual affairs were common and even expected in society. Older men admired the younger male body, and idealized the perfect version. In texts from this period (especially Plato) we can see that love for women was despised and viewed as 'common' while the love of the younger man was viewed as transcendent.
All in all, whatever becomes the focus of the male gaze becomes the main focus of beauty.
I suppose... Modern society does the same to female figures, because theirs is the form that men are attracted to sexually.
Hope that helps.(5 votes)
- There are holes that seem to have been almost drilled into the sculptures, (you can see it well aton Athena, and 4:05on the fallen warrior) where did they come from, and did they have a purpose? 5:53(4 votes)
- From the author:The holes originally contained lead that represented hair. Broken off bits of lead can still be seen in some of the photos we used in the video.(13 votes)
- From what I know, ancient Greek society valued men over women, with women being second class. Aristotle attributed the fall of Sparta to the freedom of its females. Why did this sexist society have a female goddess as its symbol of war and wisdom, and why did a city like Athens take its name from a female goddess, when they could have chosen Zeus, Poseidon, Ares, etc?(4 votes)
- Firstly, to call a society misogynistic, whether it is true or not, is not very helpful as it puts a value judgment into place. This makes the conversation about us and how we feel about a given society rather then how that society understood itself, which should be the main goal of our study of history. We are dealing with a hierarchical society in which it was assumed that a small group of people would rule over others. This included men ruling over women, but that was incidental. The fact that men could keep women subordinate while worshipping a goddess like Athena was not a contradiction. Medieval Christians did the same thing with the Virgin Mary. This kind of worship could even serve to harm women. There is a basic notion in feminist thought of the pedestal trap. We can have this idealized view of women based on our worship of Athena or Mary. We then look at real women, who can never live up to this ideal and decide that they are brainless hussies, who need to be kept under firm male control so that they don't undermine society.(5 votes)
- How do we know the West pediment sculptures were built 10 years before the East pediment sculptures? It seems like to finish the building ASAP, you'd build both sides and sculptures simultaneously (which if the East archer is shooting the warrior in the west, maybe the sculptures were all pre-planned). Were the same sculptors used on both sides?(6 votes)
- Remember, buildings in antiquity took much longer to build. Transporting materials and construction took much longer than we are used to. In the Middle Ages, some cathedrals took centuries to build! In light of this, a ten year gap doesn't seem unreasonable at all!(3 votes)
- It keeps showing that the west pediment was made in 490 and east in 480. Isn't the east pediment supposed to have a 'new' style?(1 vote)
- Remember this is B.C.E. (Before the Common Era) - so 490 BCE comes before 480 BCE.(9 votes)
- I find the idea that these sculpture were brightly and even garishly painted very interesting. Why do we not see more representations of these types of sculpture as they would actually have been seen in antiquity? When you see movies or paintings representing the time period everything is shown as a pristine white.(4 votes)
- It's hard to break that conception because we hardly ever see painted sculpture. Because of this, we're used to seeing them as blank marble.(1 vote)
- I am really impressed with how clever the composition of the West pediment is. If you pause the video at, you can see how the positions of the different figures create triangles within the large triangle of the pediment: the figures of Athena standing up in a straight line and the two warriors lunging away from her form two triangles; so do the lunging figures and the guys they are attacking (only their feet are left); they again form triangles with the kneeling archers, etc. Would the fragmentary East pediment have been just as strictly geometrical, or did the increased naturalness of the body language entail a 'loss' of strong composition? 0:53(3 votes)
- Considering that the pediments were dated to within 10 years of each other, how did historians/archaeologists get to be so precise in dating them? Could they have been done in the same time or is 10 years the shortest time to separate the Archaic and Early Classical periods?(3 votes)
- What would they be painted with?(3 votes)
- They were probably painted with mashed up berries and other things.(0 votes)
Video transcript
(lighthearted music) Man: We're in the Glyphtothek in Munich. This is an extraordinary museum devoted to ancient Greek and Roman antiquities. Woman: That's all thanks to
Prince Ludwig of Bavaria, who in the early 19th
century, said he wanted to found a collection of
antique works of sculpture, because, as he said, "We
must also have in Munich "what in Rome in known as a museum." Man: I love that. Museum wasn't even a commonly used word. The idea of a public
collection was just coming into being in Britain, in
France, and here in Germany. Woman: Ludwig was ambitious
for Munich; he wrote, "I will turn Munich
into a city of the arts, so that no one can claim to know Germany who has not also seen Munich." Man: Art was a way of really
putting a city on a map. It spoke to its cultural superiority. Ludwig put together an
incredible collection. Woman: We're looking
now at one of the great treasures of the museum,
the sculptures from the pediment of the temple of Aphaia, on the island of Aegina,
just off the coast of Greece. Man: This is an island
that's visible from Athens, so it's very close to the Greek mainland; and we really shouldn't say
'pediment', we should say 'pediments'. Let's impact that just a little bit. On a Greek temple, imagine the Parthenon. This is a long structure, with a gable at either end that is
above the column head. At either short end of the
temple there is a low triangle. Historically, those were areas
that were filled with sculpture. Woman: On the Temple of Aphaia there was a pediment on the east side
and on the west side, on the two short ends of the temple. The sculptures that filled
these pediments were discovered in the early
19th century when some German architects were surveying the ruins of the temple, and they
were soon put on auction, and Ludwig was very pleased to
acquire them for his new museum. Man: The pediment sculptures
were not made at the same moment, and that makes them even more interesting, because it helps us see the
evolution of Greek sculpture. The west pediment [with]
earlier, and we think that those sculptures were carved when the temple was actually
built, about 490 B.C.E. The east side were later,
and what's really intresting is those older west sculptures are in the archaic tradition, but the
east pediment sculptures are just taking on the
characteristics of the style that we'll come to know as the classical. Woman: We can say it's an early moment of the classical for the
sculptures on the east pediment. Man: It's this moment of transition, as the style is just
really being invented. Woman: Now, the subject for both pediments was the Trojan war, the War
between the Trojans and the Greeks. Man: Now, this war is really a mythic war, but we know about it
because it is the subject of Homer's great epic poem, "The Iliad." Woman: Some of the
heroes of the Trojan War were from the island of
Aegina, so it makes sense that they would make an
appearance on the pediment. Man: Let's start off by looking at the
sculptures on the western pediment. In terms of being a space that
gets filled with sculpture, a pediment is an awkward environment. Woman: It's incredibly
awkward, because you have these two narrow areas of the
triangle that are very hard to fill. One of the ways that you can do
that is to have reclining figures. Man: That's right. It's
almost as if the sculptures have to play limbo, they get lower and lower as you move to the edges. But, in this case, the sculptor has really been inventive, and has
found a marvelous solution. In the very center of
the pediment, on both the east and the west
sides, we have a standing figure, noble, looking
outward, the goddess Athena. Woman: Athena was known
as the goddess of war, in addition to being
the goddess of wisdom. Man: On the west pediment, we see Athena now holding a modern shaft that is meant to represent a spear that would have originally been there, perhaps in wood, more likely in bronze or some other metal. Woman: When we look at
Athena, we see a figure who looks typically archaic in style. She is frontal, she's rather
rigid, fairly symetrical, and there's a lineal
quality to her drapery. She has that typical
archaic smile that removes her from emotion, removes
her from the everyday world. She seems like a transcendent goddess. Man: On either side of the standing Athena are two warriors, and they move outward. They're actually lunging with the spears. One has their shield
facing us, one is turned in the other direction, the
shield is facing away from us; but they move our eye in
either direction outward with real energy, real
velocity, and of course, they are both slightly
lower since their knees are bent so that they fit
under the eave of the gable. Woman: On either side
of those figures, we see kneeling archers, who are shooting bows. Man: The archer on the
left, we can actually identify as Paris, and we
can see his cap is tied in the back, his weight is on
one knee and on one heel. The bow is missing, but
we can certainly see an arm movement that suggests that he was in the middle of loosing his arrow. Woman: Behind him, a
striding figure with a weapon who's attacking a figure
who's falling to the ground. Man: Look at the complexity
of that group of three in the way in which they overlap. There's a real sense of energy. There's a real sense of dynamism. Just pretty extraordinary
for the archaic moment. Woman: On the far left corner, another wounded figure just fits
into that corner space. Man: Let's focus for a
moment on the wounded warrior that is on the right
side of the west pediment. You can see that he's fallen back. He's on his left hip and
he's on his left elbow, and his right hand seems to be clutching, or perhaps trying to remove
a spear that has wounded him. Woman: Let me stop you for a moment, because he doesn't really look like he's in the position of a wounded warrior. His knee is bent, it
comes over his left leg, he's propped up on his left arm, and his right elbow comes up in
a rather awkward way. This figure really doesn't seem believable in terms of what he's
supposed to be doing, pulling this spear from his body. Man:That's right, this must
be tremendously painful, and probably will kill him,
and yet, look at his face; he still retains the archaic
smile, but for all of this it's important to remember
that this is not naturalism, this is not an attempt to render
the feelings of the human body. This is a highly stylized
[for a schematic] structure. Woman: In a way, the figure is a
symbol more than a real figure; a symbol of a fallen
warrior in the Trojan War. Man: One art historian is likened
this figure to face painting, where there was an attempt
often to raise torsos up so that you could see the full musculature in the entire front; so, this is not about naturalism, it's about
revealing the body in a way. Woman: The same art
historian likened this figure to a reclining kouros, and
that's exactly how he looks. It's as though a standing kouros
figure has been tipped over. This is so different than what we see on the east pediment, which
dates from only about a decade or two later,
where we see the beginnings of the classical style. Man: Let's go take a look. Now, the east pediment
is much more fragmentary on the left side, but the
one figure of the fallen soldier is in great condition,
and it's so different from what we saw, the
earlier archaic west facade. Woman: While this figure still
has a bit of that archaic smile, everything else about
the position of his body tells us that this is a wounded
figure taking his last breath. Man: You can see that
he is holding his sword with his right hand, but
he's also trying to push himself back up, but he doesn't
seem to be able to do it. His left arm is still in the shield,
and he seems to be balancing himself. You know it's just a moment before
that shield falls over with a bang. Woman: There's a sense that he's propping himself up, but he's also
falling at the same time, lowering his body as he dies. Man: He's looking down at the ground, and his body is more mature
than the other figure, it's also much more
naturalistically rendered. We're seeing that origin
of the classical tradition. Woman: In the archaic
period, we see the hard divisions between the
muscles and the parts of the body, outlines
almost, to parts of the body, and here, one muscle flows into another, and there's a real sense of skin
lying over a skeletal structure. Man: That's right. A
moment ago, you had said that the archaic sculpture was nothing but really a set of symbols, and
here it's as if the artist has actually observed a
human body and thought about what it must be
like for a figure to fall. Woman: Instead of having
that back leg coming over the front leg in
a very unnatural way, and instead of having
that elbow lifted up, the right arm of the figure
comes over his torso fully; there's no attempt to
reveal the whole body tipped forward to us the way we
had in the archaic figure. Man: Now look at the torso.
Look at the muscles of the leg. This is a far, more complex rendering of the human body in a complex pose. Woman: Just like on the west pediment, as we look at the east pediment, we've got a central figure again, Athena. Man: To the right of Athena, we have figures that are much more in tact. We have a lunging figure, we saw that on the west pediment as
well, who is in the process of impaling a man who has lost his helmet, his shield is falling off
his arm, and he is tottering, he has lost his balance. Woman: He looks as though
he's about to collapse. Man: We know he's lost his helmet because the young man who's in
back of him who seems to be trying to aid him
and running towards him, is holding a fragment
that we know would have originally been his helmet. Woman: His body forms a
diagonal in that lunge, and so it fits nicely into that
triangular space of the pediment. Behind him is another archer just
like we saw on the west pediment. Man: Archaeologists think
that archer is actually the one who has hit the wounded
warrior on the opposite side. Woman: The one who we
were discussing before. Man: That's right. Woman: So, we have this
wonderful unification of action among all of these
figures on the east pediment. Man: We have this more complex narrative, even though the same story is being told. We have a much more complex musculature, much more careful attention
to the human experience. This makes us ask what has changed? This just been a few years
between these pediments, and yet they are so different. Woman: This is always
the questions that art historians ask as we look at works of art that are separated not by a very
long period of time, in this case. What has happened in the values of ancient Greek culture that has led them to represent the human
figure so differently. Man: If you go back in
Greek history, the Greeks were deeply influenced by
monumental Egyptian sculpture. You can still get a
sense of a trace of that in the archaic tradition, but now
there's a sense of self-awareness. These are mobile figrues out in the world that are almost enacting human emotion, human expression, and human experience. That is so different from
the idea of representation as symbolic, which it so
informed earlier Greek art. Woman: In the classical
period, we have figures who we can believe are part of a story, it's a story that we can
begin to feel for them, we can sympathize with
them as we watch them. This is a moement in ancient Greek history when the Greeks have just
defeated the Persians in battle; this is an epic
victory for Greek culture when many of the Greek city states united to fight their enemy, the Persians. Man: Right, this common enemy that really should have been victorious, the Persians should have won, it
was a much larger army; and the Greeks knew it,
and the fact that they were victorious suggested to them that there was a kind of
order in the universe. Woman: There's a sense
now that the world is into place that just operates
arbitrarily according to the laws of the gods,
but it's a place that the human mind, with its sense of
the rational, can understand. Man: So, there is a much greater burden placed on the Greeks
with this realization. They are now responsible
for their own society. They're not part of a random order, they are part of an order
that they actually devise. Woman: Art historians see the origins of the classical style in
this historical moment. We have an obligation, even here in the 21st century, to
try to put ourselves, even though it's an impossible task, in the minds of the ancient
Greeks, and to truly understand these works of
arts from their point of view. It's really important
ot remember that these sculptures were painted
just like all ancient Greek sculptures, and
with very bright colors. Man: This completely destroys
our image of Greek art. When we think about
Greek art, we think about these pristine, brillian,
white marble surfaces, and they were garish; they were yellow, they were blue, they were green. Woman: Art historians and
archaeologists have done scientific analyses of
these sculptures, and found traces and residues
of pigments and been able to determine it pretty
acurately, at least the red and blues that we find here
in some of the geometric patterns. Man: It's so jarring
for me to try to imagine these colors back, and it's
not just that the figures themselves were painted,
but the architectural spaces in which these figures
were placed was painted as well. Woman: There are so many ways that we're not looking at these the way
that the ancient Greeks did. First of all, these were
outside in the open air. They were high up on a
pediment on this island. Man: Certainly the
color would have made it much easier to see
these figures, would try to have been in the shade of architecture. There's another element
that we can re-imagine, which is that these figures
not only holding things that have since disappeared,
they were holding spears, and bows and
arrows, but they also had other pieces of metal work
that have since been lost. There was hair, sometimes actually hanging like bangs over the
forehead, and also long locks that came down and framed the faces. In this case, they were
made out of lead, and we can actually see little pieces
of the remaining lead that are still there, and so we
know precisely where they came out of stone, and
that would have helped, I think, create not these
figures as single stone objects the way that we
see them, but as these much more complex figures
that interact with their architectural environments. Woman: Let's not forget,
too, that these are temples. These are places of religious
worship, and that they were homes to the gods,
and that the central figure on both the east and west
pediment is the goddess Athena; and of course, the Greek idea of gods and goddesses is entirely different from
our own Judeo-Christian tradition. These are all important
things to keep in mind as we look at the Greek sculptures in museums. (lighthearted music)