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Ancient Mediterranean + Europe
Artemision Zeus or Poseidon
Artemision Zeus or Poseidon, c. 460 B.C.E., bronze, 2.09 m high, Early Classical (Severe Style), recovered from a shipwreck off Cape Artemision, Greece in 1928 (National Archaeological Museum, Athens)
Speakers: Dr. Beth Harris and Dr. Steven Zucker. Created by Steven Zucker and Beth Harris.
Speakers: Dr. Beth Harris and Dr. Steven Zucker. Created by Steven Zucker and Beth Harris.
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- What shipwreck was this statue recovered from? What other artifacts were discovered with it?(15 votes)
- The wreck, thought to be the result of a unfortunate ship bringing plundered art to Rome, sank off Cape Artemision in Greece. The wreck also contained this an extraordinary bronze of a running horse with a boy on its back: http://www.unesco.org/new/en/culture/themes/underwater-cultural-heritage/the-heritage/did-you-know/artemision-jockey/(27 votes)
- I find it nothing short of miraculous that a statue like this exists. That they had the techniques, combined with the artistry, to create this is mind-boggling. Are there any extant sources from the period that discuss the casting process or how something like this could have been made? Thanks and thanks for posting the video.(7 votes)
- In the "art history basics" section on this website, there is a video detailing the lost-wax bronze casting method that was used by ancient Greeks (and their contemporaries)
Also more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost-wax_casting#Greek.2C_Roman_.26_Mediterranean(5 votes)
- If this were Zeus about to throw a thunder bolt, wouldn't it be angled down? Whereas, wouldn't Poseidon about to throw a trident be parallel to the ground like this?(4 votes)
- Zeus did throw thunderbolts at hapless mortals from up on Mt. Olympus, but there are many stories of him fighting other gods, giants, cyclopes, and others on equal footing (pun intended). Assuming it is Zeus, this could be inspired by one of those stories.(6 votes)
- Will we be able to find out what he was holding?(5 votes)
- No we probably can't because i think they searched all of the wreck(1 vote)
- how many greek gods are there(1 vote)
- Atthe "gleaming warm color of the bronze" of the sculpture in its original state is mentioned. Can the bronze not be polished to restore it to how it would have appeared originally? Is it not done because the process might damage the piece? Or was there a conscious decision to keep it in this state? 2:02(3 votes)
- Good question, they surely can restore the "gleaming warm color" and with todays technology it would be possible to do it without any "damage" to material. The problem is that they would damage one of the values of this statue - its very old age. And the current patina is sign of old age, of its long history and usually this kind of patina is considered as something aestheticaly enhancing to the object (especially bronze objects).(1 vote)
- What made ancient greeks shift from marble sculptures to bronze ones ? Was it that it didn't require additional support ? Also what other materials they used to make such statues ?(2 votes)
- Because according to the video at/ 3:26it says that the tensile strength of bronze is great enough so that the arms can be spread apart instead of closed in or by the sides of the body like with marble statues. This also can give a more threatening look to the god or goddess in my opinion. 5:07(2 votes)
- Maybe the thunderbolt/trident sunk to the bottom of the ocean when the ship was shipwrecked. Is it a paradox? (Unless we find the thunderbolt/trident from the bottom of the ocean.)(2 votes)
- What are the dimensions of the statue?(1 vote)
- Its 2.09 meters tall. This information can always be found at the end of the video.(2 votes)
- What if this is a depiction of an athlete? What made the idea of it being an athlete ruled out?(1 vote)
- The iconography does not fit with the portrayal of an athlete. The pose, the mature anatomy, the full beard, stylization of the hair - all signs pointing toward a divinity.(2 votes)
Video transcript
Dr. Steven Zucker: We're in the National Archaeological
Museum in Athens and we're looking at a great bronze
sculpture of a striding god. Dr. Beth Harris: You didn't even have to tell me it was a god. He's so powerful, he looks so in control. We look at him and we know that this is a god who controls the
fates of human beings. Dr. Steven Zucker: We're pretty sure he's either Poseidon or Zeus. Dr. Beth Harris: Now,
Poseidon's the god of the sea. Dr. Steven Zucker: And his brother, Zeus, is the god who rules all of the Olympian gods from Mount Olympus. The way that we would be able to determine which it was, is dependent
on what he was holding. Dr. Beth Harris: If he
was holding a trident, he would be Poseidon and if he was holding a thunderbolt, he would be Zeus. Now, sadly, his attribute is lost. Dr. Steven Zucker: Most art historians tend to think it's Zeus. A thunderbolt was short and it would not have obscured the face the way that a trident would have, which was much longer. In addition, if you look
at the gap in his hand, it's a wide grasp, much wider than it would be if it was the
narrow handle of a trident. Dr. Beth Harris: A thunderbolt was Zeus's weapon of choice, he's referred to as, "The
Hurler of Thunderbolts." Now, this is bronze, it's
important to talk about what this would have looked like in
460 BCE when it was created. It would have gleamed, it
would have shined in the light. Dr. Steven Zucker: It's so rare that we have an original Greek
bronze and the only reason we have this one, is that it was recovered from an ancient shipwreck. What happens is, the
bronze doesn't rust unless there is air and water that alternate. Underwater, it gets encrusted
with lots of barnacles and sea creatures, but it actually can be quite well preserved
as it is the case here. Dr. Beth Harris: That gleaming, shining, radiant effect goes with
the idea of this being Zeus. Dr. Steven Zucker:
Especially since we think that the eye brows, perhaps
the beard and certainly the thunderbolt, would have
been inlaid with silver. You would have had that
gleaming warm color of the bronze against those
brilliant flashes of silver. Dr. Beth Harris: His eyes
would have been inlaid with glass and so you have this amazing figure, not only gleaming, but
also striding toward us, depending on where we stand of course. Dr. Steven Zucker: Look at
the way he occupies space, we don't want to stand in front of him, we would be the victim
of that thunderbolt. His focus is extraordinary,
we have that incredible extension that is more than
six feet of one hand to the other and he's steadying himself, but also aiming with that hand before him. Dr. Beth Harris: He's
shifting as you would need to do in order to hurl
something like a thunderbolt, although it's hard to imagine
hurling a thunderbolt. Dr. Steven Zucker: That's
right, he's pushing off with his right leg and his
left leg, the toes are up as if that foot is readying itself to bear the weight of the body
as he steps forward. Dr. Beth Harris: Now, if you
think back just a hundred years to the Archaic
Period, Greek sculptors were making sculptures out
of marble and they were very contained, that is the
limbs were close to the body. We see during this early classical period- Dr. Steven Zucker: Sometimes
known as the Severe style. Dr. Beth Harris: An
interest in figures that are more open, where you have
limbs that are apart, figures that move into
the space of the viewer and this is possible because
of the use of bronze. Dr. Steven Zucker: We
don't need the struts, we don't need the bridges that are required in a marble sculpture. Here, the tensile strength of the bronze is great enough so that
those arms can be out and give that kind of
extraordinary vitality to this figure and invite us to walk around it. Dr. Beth Harris: There are
really three distinct views of this sculpture, the front
and the back make the figure look very flat, very
schematic, very silhouetted. We see the full body, we
see both legs, the torso- Dr. Steven Zucker: It's
almost like a drawing. Dr. Beth Harris: The arms stretched out. Dr. Steven Zucker: The arms,
especially the left arm are a little longer than
they would be naturally. Dr. Beth Harris: When we move to the side, that sense of flatness
changes and we get a figure that seems to occupy
space in all directions. Dr. Steven Zucker: We see
the depth of the torso, we can see a little bit of twist in the hips and the upper body. We see this figure breaking out from that kouros tradition dramatically. Dr. Beth Harris: What
seems like silhouette, actually exists in depth. Dr. Steven Zucker: Look,
for instance, at the angle of the hole in the right hand. We can see that the
thunderbolt or the trident was not held parallel with the hand, but would have swung around because it's at a little bit of an angle. Dr. Beth Harris: The
remarkable thing to me is that he looks powerful,
he looks super human, but still human in his nudity. Dr. Steven Zucker: The
Greeks understanding the male human body as this receptacle
for all of its ideals. Plato talked about the
idea that the gods were the perfect manifestation
and that we work a kind of inferior reflection of that perfection. Here we see the Greek
setting up this idealized human male body and we are
just a reflection of that.