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so this is Sal Khan here of the Khan Academy you know we're gonna do a really fun experiment this morning we're on Google Hangouts on air with with secretary Duncan Secretary Arne Duncan the Secretary of Education and we're just gonna have a conversation about technology about education about higher education and I'll just hand it over secretary Duncan well I hand it back to you and take any questions you have but just as you know I'm a big fan of your work my children have really enjoyed participating in Khan Academy lots of exciting things going on obviously came off the bus tour last night with the president we're really working hard to reduce college costs but what is talking about college costs or technology or k12 or four more trying to more early childhood happy to take any questions you have and again thanks so much for the leadership and the extraordinary amount of opportunity you're creating for children not just in this country but across the globe it's pretty amazing to see Oh No thank you that means a lot to have to hear from from you and your children who's kind of Canada they do use Khan Academy Norsemen you actually enjoyed it I don't have to beat them and make them do it I may even enjoy it that's great fantastic so the place I really want to start on him you get a lot of comments here especially because a lot of the news with the bus tour that you all have been making around some of the announcements around trying to reduce a college education cost we got on Facebook and on Twitter from Science Guy what element of the reform plan do you think is going to be the biggest change the biggest game-changer and then Hussein Mirza and June Kendall they're all asking around this how do you how are you going to address the the cost issue with this plan and and and do you think it's actually going to happen there it seemed like there was some resistance from at least comments from from members of Congress there's always gonna be resistance and change as hard as you know but let me just start with sort of explaining the problem I have to tell you virtually everywhere I go whether it's to the grocery store or whether so the dry cleaners every plane out I'm on you have hardworking middle-class parents coming up and it's almost heartbreaking basically pleading for help and college costs are just crushing folks and when you polled the American public it's pretty scary a lot of people starting to think that college isn't for it's for the wealthiest for the richest for people not like them and so at a time and going to college has never been more important unfortunately ever been more expensive and so we have to work together to drive down cost we have to have much greater transparency and help young people and their families make better choices we have to challenge States to continue to invest we can't do it by ourselves we have to make sure that young people have a set of good options to select from and know what a loan is what's a grant what a graduation rates what are the particular strengths or weaknesses of majors at different places but to see the president so engaged is fantastic and this is one simply where we have to break through and this should not be political we want to lead the world in college graduation rates right now we're on a path in terms of escalating cost that is unsustainable so having a honest conversation with a public how do we better encourage States to do the right thing how do we better rank universities and rate them based upon are they taking in low-income students are they graduating are they keeping down college cost there should be nothing political about any of this I look forward to working with uh not just the public but with members of your Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate to do the right thing for our country this to me again is not just about helping individual and their families we're really fighting for our country's economic future and to remain economically competitive we need to have the best educated workforce in the world in some form of higher education has to be the goal for every single young person a high school diploma is no longer enough so four-year universities two-year community colleges trade technical vocational training that has to be the goal for everyone and families have to have the security that they get if they work hard doesn't have a chance to pursue that goal that's what this is about and and this is a kind of an overarching theme of this plan especially around the rankings is to ranks to rank universities based on essentially value that they create or the economic opportunities for the students afterwards and so that the universities that are really expensive and the students aren't getting good jobs afterwards they're going to be at the kind of the bottom of the list and might not get a grant funding or subsidized loans well we're opening all this and want to have a really public conversation over the next year and get the best ideas and I'm always interested in our universities improving as their growth and gain so our graduate rates going up or down or are they stagnant are they serving more low-income and first-generation Pell Grant recipients are graduates being able to compete successfully in job market afterwards but there's a whole host of things I'm very aware that if you put the wrong metrics out there you can create some perverse incentives and disincentives and encourage bad behavior that's obviously the last thing you undo and we're going to be very thoughtful and nuanced and so no preconceived notions we're going to go out and talk to your professors and presidents and parents and students themselves have a national conversation at the back end of that come up with something that makes more sense what many folks don't understand is today we invest about a hundred and fifty billion dollars each year in grants and loans it's a huge investment that we make happily in the taxpayer support but all of that investment sau is based upon inputs access to college none of it is on outcomes our students actually graduating are they graduating with skills will help them be successful the rest of their life and so having a greater emphasis not just on access which is important but really on the outcomes that's where we want to go makes sense makes sense and with that I mean with some of the the statements that you open y'all have been making you know we got a lot of tweets you know this is from Becky bacala we all talk a lot about also the importance of technology and education and how technology might be a tool to to increase accessibility but it did it did raise some concerns from from several folks Becky bacala wrote some students only chance of caring human interactions are school wise online learning better Erica Kirchner wrote for placing teachers with computers to save money on these short changes our kids also wrote the technology must work in concert with the teacher it's not the teacher so so what are your thoughts ed there's a lot of fear around when people talk about technology and especially when they're talking about it in the context of cost savings that it means that you're gonna you're gonna have fewer human beings involved yeah I always think these false dichotomies false debates technology is never gonna replace great teachers and what all the research all the studies seem to show is that blended learning great teachers empowered by great technology is what's leading to the best educational outcomes achievement for students and as I you know travel the country and get to go to hundreds of schools each year which I love I'm seeing amazing teachers some you know young teachers some 25 to 30 year veteran teachers who talk very openly with me about their initial apprehension and fear about using technology in classroom but how much more empowered they feel how much more effective they feel how much more engaged their students are in their learning and so this is neither this is never going to be either/or it's got to be both and I think technology can help to strengthen teaching help teachers not just teach but actually know whether their students are learning or not the goal is not to teach the goal is actually have students learn to have students much more engaged in their own learning that parents know what's working and what's not and have them be better partners and so I just see tremendous upside I think there's a huge equity play here to give students and communities who historically have not had the best of education opportunities to really level the playing field but it's also a chance to raise the bar at the high end if you can do both those things push equity very very hard and raise the bar for the country I may feel it's early we're in our infancy you and others to help them to leave this field but I'm actually extraordinarily hopeful about where this can go ya know complete completely agree with that I mean what we've seen at Khan Academy is once again people a lot of times have it that knee-jerk reaction Ellis's technology versus physical but it's the exact opposite a couple couple quick examples the president I when we made the announcement about increasing access to broadband we went to Mooresville North Carolina this is a district is invested heavily in technology over the past six seven eight years in tough economic times no additional money what they simply stopped doing is buying textbooks I continue to wonder is Ignatian why we keep spending seven eight nine billion dollars each year on textbooks that are literally out of dates basically the day you purchase them so they'd made that shift and again veteran teachers feel that they're teaching an entirely different level I've been to places like school of one in New York where you have larger classrooms 3040 children working in small groups teachers walking between different groups again veteran New York teachers initially very scared about this think they're changing his lives in a really important way so again early on a lot to learn together but I'm very very helpful not just on the k-12 side but in higher ed with MOOCs as well yeah no absolutely but moving on to keep the trouble a lot of the questions we've gotten have been around around the Common Core in particular Nathan nasbe wrote you know we've already had standards at a state level how's the Common Core are going to be different we have several questions Deborah do Bartolomeo kind of wrote that in her stay in New York there are already having issues with graduation rates what what does a common core gonna do there is and I'll throw in my two sentences you know at Khan Academy we're very focused on intentionally creating material for the common core the thing that I see in it is it's much deeper and much more rigorous and so in that world it's it's really a higher standard than we've had in the past so I guess those are the two questions how will it improve overall learning and graduation rates and and and and is there a risk that it's maybe too rigorous these are great and great questions important questions but let me be really clear one of the things I think his his hurt children in communities and ultimately our country tremendously is we had 50 different states with 50 different standards and many of which got dummy down they got reduced to make politicians look good we were actually lying to Children and Families telling them they are prepared to be successful when frankly they weren't even close and to me that is absolutely insidious it is heartbreaking that's the worst thing that can happen to a child and families that think they're on track to be in college and career-ready and they get to senior year and find out they're not even in the ball game they have no hope of doing that and they think they're played by all the rules and this has happened in some places for far too long and so the idea of having high standards college and career-ready standards that are internationally benchmarked so we will no longer be lying to students and Families is a game changer now it's gonna take a tremendous amount of work to help to prepare students to give teachers the PD they need the implementation of this is gonna be rocky and hard and difficult but I tell you every time you raise standards students do better they're more engaged Sal I'll argue the vast majority of students who drop out don't drop out because high schools too hard they drop out because high school is boring they're not connected to not engage and your point the chance to go deeper more critical thinking skills more analytical skills we think is hugely important teachers across the country have really embraced this it is hard work if they know they're taking on more we do a great job supporting them but I'm so hopeful about where this is gonna go over the next two three four years and if we can have the courage to stay the course as a nation I'm will be an entirely different place I can tell you literally for the first time in our country's history a child in Massachusetts or a child in Maryland or a child in Mississippi they're gonna be held to the same high standards as you know so well young people today aren't competing for jobs in their district or in their state in the country they're competing for jobs with children in India and China and Singapore in South Korea and I'm convinced our children are smart as talented as creative as entrepreneurial as children anywhere in the world we just have to level the playing field for them we have to give them a chance and that's what this effort which is being led by States on a voluntary basis that's what this is all about and following up on that we've got a lot of a lot of folks here who you know with the common core also expressed fear that this you know we there's a bit of general trend more emphasis on testing more emphasis on testing and the fear is is it with the common core that seems like it's an even larger emphasis on standards possibly testing what's what's your view on this balance between the very the objective things that you can test in a test and whether it should be high-stakes or not for things like teacher evaluation and the the intangibles feels experiential learning things like that yeah I think there's these are really important issues that we have to work through together but I'll say part of what I resent is so much about the No Child Left Behind law and I lived on the other side of it for 7 1/2 years I led a Chicago Public Schools we wanted Congress to fix the broken law unfortunate Congress is pretty dysfunctional with providing waivers to 40 states so we're partnering very very well directly with states across the political spectrum who had No Child Left Behind did I think it did lead to an overemphasis on a test not a proficiency cut score which i think is you know lots of perverse incentives there are lots of bad things for kids and for educators what you're seeing through the waiver process is states moving in a very different direction yes they're looking at growth and gain improvements which I think should be part of multiple measures of what you're looking at but they're moving way beyond a focus on test scores they're looking at increasing graduation rates reducing dropout rates are more high school graduates actually going on to some form of higher education are they doing that not having to take remedial classes I have to tell you so many young people around the country 40 50 percent some communities are taking remedial classes again these are the graduates these ones have made it through they're not ready are they persevering in higher ed so what you're seeing in terms of accountability is moving way beyond a focus on a test score which I think has lots of problems looking at much more long term outcomes and I think that's a very very healthy thing so we want Common Core to continue in that trend but having states and districts and schools look not just a third grade test score but again are we graduating more students are they graduating prepared to chase their dreams again be that in the world of higher ed or in the world of work I'm a much more holistic sense of accountability comprehensive absolutely the right direction to go in states again I think they're showing tremendous leadership and courage and creativity in these areas yeah absolutely and another you know I guess an overarching theme and we've got a lot of a lot of tweets that kind of touch touch on this issue is that the teachers themselves often are feeling they're feeling marginalized in the conversation they're feeling that a kind of everyone solution is sometimes to blame teachers and you know I think what you and I would agree that education is literally the probably the most important investment that we could make in society and oftentimes it's lip service to the importance of that and the lip service the importance of teachers but the way things have structured right now that they don't get paid what a what a doctor or a lawyer engineer gets be you know they don't get oftentimes the same respect that a doctor or a lawyer engineer gets you know what can we do to move more in that direction you know let me say a couple things first of all anyone who is blaming teachers is part of the problem not part of the solution teachers do extraordinarily hard complex difficult work every single day often without enough resources again I'm in hundreds of schools each year and teachers are working amazingly hard obviously literally just this week you saw in DeKalb County in Georgia teachers and school members prevented what could have been just a horrific massacre and just showed tremendous tremendous courage I mean literal heroes profil profiles encourage and president I talked to one of those staff members last night answering at haha I talked to the entire team this morning and so teachers routinely go way way beyond the call of duty so what we need to do together is to elevate and to strengthen the teaching profession to do everything we can to attract and retain great talent we've put out a blueprint people can look on our website the respect initiative we think it's again the best thing we can do I'll say two other things um as a country I think we're just this fork in the road of whether we see education as an investment as you and I do and I would argue the best investment we can make or an expense and every time I go testify before Congress we have a set of folks who say we should cut back on education and cut back on headstart and on you know K to 12 and on Pell grants and I just think that's very very troubling and it's cutting off our nose to spite our face again we want to have the best educated country in the world and we have politicians who refuse to invest it makes no sense am I worried desperately right now in real time about what's going on in the city of Philadelphia I worry about as a school year starts those children there who deserve the best education receiving that inferior education because folks refuse to invest North Carolina is a state I worry tremendously about North Carolina used to be sort of a national leader in reform and so many things teachers salaries have dropped precipitously in North Carolina I spoke last week with some teachers and it was a these are fantastic teachers in North Carolina and Salas absolutely heartbreaking I'm you have teachers literally who are making so little money now that they were on food stamps they're receiving food stamps to feed their children I spoke to another teacher who is giving blood who was selling blood like twice a month to pay the bills and again for me it just makes no sense whatsoever so how we elevate the profession how we strengthen it I've already argued very publicly that we should pay starting teachers a heck of a lot more money we should pay fantastic teachers two to three times as much money it is the best investment we can make right now as a country in too many states and localities folks I think don't quite understand that and I would argue in tough economic times education is not something you cut back on you actually double down your investment we have to educate our way to a better economy do you want more upward mobility more social mobility the only way you do that is to strengthen America's classrooms and to support our nation's fantastic teachers yeah no I agree with you I just it's just scary I mean some of what you just talked about it yeah and I think a lot of I mean we definitely agree that there has to be more investment there to ask me ways to compensate teachers better but at the same time you have these budgetary pressures so I just hope that these two things don't run into each other with negative what I always say says it you know these are tough economic times and yes they're budgetary pressures but I always say budgets aren't numbers on a piece of paper budgets reflect our values and the question I always asked when you know hold us accountable the federal level and you see the president tried to increase investment in every level early childhood k12 higher ed every single year one of the things I'm most proud of is an additional 40 billion dollars for Pell grants serving almost nine million young more than nine million unfilled Pell grants but we can't do it by ourselves and when states cut funding to education but keep increasing funding for prisons as many states do they're making a value judgment they would prefer to lock people up to incarcerate them to invest them in the front end so yes we all have in our own families in our budgets professionally personally we all have to make tough calls but the calls we make the investments we make reflect our values and I just desperately hope more States than more communities and more elected officials at the national level you know in Congress House and Senate understand that we have to invest in education if that means we have to spend less on other things that might be a tough call but is the right call to make for our children for our families and ultimately for our country you know and with that you know we should be investing in in more in education and as we do it and we do the best a reasonable amount already what's your view and there's a lot of talk now this is something that we get a lot of questions on and we talk about a lot is is is thinking about the structure of education itself that you know that the the way that we teach and right now is really something we inherited from the 18th century Prussians where we group kids together and we move them at a set pace and at least to some of what you talked about that kids get promoted because they were in a chair for a year and then they get to Community College or college and they're testing in a sixth grade math level the other side of it is more of a competency-based model where you know students take as long as they need to learn something but then they get to a very high standard and so really that would make it possible that someone graduates and and has to take remedial math do you see things shifting there that they have to shift we have to continue to accelerate the fact that we're still teaching with a 19th century model makes no sense whatsoever you know 25 or 30 kids sitting in roles all learning the same thing at the same time same pace again it just it's like a Neanderthal it makes no sense and so this idea again with technology being a great tool to empower of moving from seat time as you said so clearly to competency I don't want to know how long you sat there I want to know do you know the material do you know algebra or biology or physics or chemistry or whatever might be if you know it you shouldn't have to see you shouldn't have to sit there so we're doing everything we can to encourage this on the you know K to 12 side I'm on the higher ed we're starting to do some pilot some experimental programs with places like the University of a southern New Hampshire there's moving from from seat time to master you to competency this is absolutely where we need to go and what's still important for me so it's not just for the high fliers yes it's going to benefit the high fliers I need to be able to move much more quickly but the average student should be able to get the help they need that student who takes more time it doesn't matter how long it takes them to learn it they just need to master that content so whether there's more time during the school day more time after school or at night at home and again using technology weekends the goal is to become comfortable and confident with whatever the material is that whatever your third grade 5th grade AP Physics and so this for me is a game-changer for kids it's absolutely the right thing to do and time should be variable not time should not be the constant the constant should be our students having opportunities to learn to master the material to be engaged in their own learning so again there's some really creative innovative things starting to happen but part of I think our role is to take these these areas of innovations these pockets of excellence and try and share these best practices and actually take them to scale to make this the norm rather than the exception yeah and I mean there's just too undone underlined that I mean a lot of times what we see is yes you let students go at their own pace and the assumption is some kids are just going to take longer and fall further and further behind but we're seeing over and over again a few let students put their own pace a lot of times that students if you thought was a little bit slower they're taking their time really filling in their gaps they end up becoming the best students in the class six months later I think and the more you can articulate those findings and demonstrate them are so important far too many adults underestimate what students can do and yes we know students need helping you support them but I get our biggest problem I think in this country is not that we're pushing kids too hard is that we're not encourage them enough we're not giving them enough opportunities to learn and do more whenever you raise damage maybe give opportunities you don't have more dropouts you have more graduates the problem I'm guarantee you has always been that we dummy things down for kids and they feel that they know it they sense it they know that they think that we're not stares about their education and they become disengaged they back out and we give them a chance to fly to learn to empower them you see extraordinary things happen again not just for those at the top but those who we thought may have been struggling let them find their passion let them find their interest and they'll go to the moon with that we have to create those opportunities and another I guess just overarching theme it's a long the same idea of us kind of going with a legacy system that we've had you know since Horace Mann brought us the Prussian system in the mid 19th century is not only the system itself kind of seat time versus competency but what is actually covered you know there's something I've written about a lot of people know is it you know this is this decision to do algebra in ninth grade out you know geometry and trigonometry calculus and physics in senior year and all of that that was decided essentially by ten men about 120 years ago and so you know one question I get I just even have myself you know I love calculus I made 400 videos online I love the subject I need to watch your videos I'm you get exciting stuff but I'm the one thing I wonder is something like statistics is far more applicable and pretty much any field you go into but that's usually reserved for kind of an elective course in college and it is it for things like law is you only get frankly if you go to law school you don't even get it at an undergraduate level is there is there some movement to try to make this more part of the core curriculum so I always talked about a well-rounded world-class education and so as all the things you mentioned it's computer science which obviously didn't exist as hundred years of class I don't want to mention that people computer science there are a lot of great jobs in computer science that are going unfilled today you know Cody we have here I would add to that foreign languages I would add to that financial literacy I would add to that physical education and recess health and so these are things that generally you see in the in the elite private schools they are just sort of part of the core but somehow in public education again often due to underfunding lack of investment all those things kind of get stripped away and again I worry about you know generally but very specifically right now about places like Philadelphia and North Carolina but I think it really is sort of a time of crisis and when you take away those kinds of opportunities our children should be growing up bilingual and trilingual they have to be financially literate they have to have the computer science and other things that has to be part of the core curriculum so yes the basic reading and math are fundamental and foundational but that's a starting point not an ending point and again if we're serious about keeping kids in school reducing dropout rates they're devastatingly high it's all of those things that I would add is more it's all the extracurriculars it's banned it's art it's music it's chess it's sports it's academic decathlon it's yearbook it's theaters Model UN that all has to be the norm as well and again when we walk away from that we really really hurt our children you know I even go a little further I actually think a lot of that stuff I mean I think about my own education a lot of my real memories from middle school in high school I felt I learned the most were some of the things you just listed and and it almost feels like we there's not tree to rethink in these extracurriculars become the curricular and that all the core skills are ways to support that but but I hundred percent 100% agree with that you know with all of these you know we've just talked about a bunch of really I think powerful ideas and things that are the correct direction it but where do you see the federal government in this is you know as the Secretary of Education obviously education is mainly executed on by the states how do you how do you all try to influence what happens in the right direction so so again our goal is to lead the world in college graduation rates that's the North Star that's what the president has challenged us to do on one generation ago we led the world we a flatline we've stagnated about a dozen other countries that passed us by and I think we're paying a real price for that as a nation so for me it's about investing into every level its increasing access to early childhood education you know I haven't talked about that this morning that's arguably the most important investment we can make is to get our babies off to a good start let them enter kindergarten ready to be successful we have to continue to improve K to 12 driver form increased graduation rates reduce dropout rates make sure our high school graduates are truly college and career ready and again the big push are making now is it some form of higher ed four-year universities two-year community colleges trade technical vocational training that has to be the goal for every single young person today and so how we share best practices how we continue to encourage investment how we reward innovation and courage how we think about this comprehensively again really birth through age year whatever 22 23 24 and even beyond adult learners coming back Community College doing a great job there this for me is we're fighting for our country here we're fighting for our families we want to provide as much leadership as we can and drive this agenda but again we need great partnership at the state and local level as well right and it sounds like the way that you'll execute obviously you'll have a soapbox if you will people will listen based on you can set the direction and on top of that the Department of Education goes out there and and really kind of rewards districts in States that if y'all feel it moving in the right direction and we try to invest so historically our department didn't invest in early childhood education we thought that was a problem with Congress's bipartisan support we've invested about six hundred million dollars to increase early childhood opportunities and states across the country that's a big deal we would like to invest dramatically more we want to make sure that every child has access there which we've saved a couple hundred thousand teacher jobs and tough economic times we're also driving reform K to twelve and then I said on the higher ed side one of things I'm most proud of was a 40 billion dollar increase in Pell grants without going back to taxpayers were nickel we simply stopped subsidizing banks put all that money into Pell grants that was wildly controversial here in Washington we've got his common sense we've gone from about 6 million power recipients to nine point six million but to be really clear as we sorted where we started the conversation I'm very concerned that college is becoming unaffordable not just in disadvantaged communities but for the middle class and so I'm proud of what we've done this is absolutely unfinished business and we have to push very very hard so that families have the security of knowing if theirs if their children work hard they will have the chance to pursue higher ed once they graduate from high school and and you did touch on the early learning which is and I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old and they're in preschool now and I and I personally as a parent have seen the value of what's done for them you know they were a few years before they go into the formal system why do you think that hasn't been more universal in a Florida famously has early childhood and that you know it's kind of a very bipartisan way under under Governor Jeb Bush what why don't we see that more on a nationwide basis I'll tell you why because two and three and four-year-olds your children don't vote right I'm obvious they don't have packs and I think too many politicians are wired to think about their next election or just the next new cycle in early childhood education is the ultimate in long term investments and the dividends we often don't see for a decade or two or three or four but folks who are a lot smarter than me like James Heckman the Nobel prize-winning economist at the University of kaga was talked about a seven to one return on investment that every dollar we put in early childhood we as a country get back seven dollars less teenage pregnancy less crime less in car Jason more high school graduates more folks going to college more folks going into the workforce paying taxes being productive citizens but it's a long-term play so the president has put on the table a 75 billion dollar proposal to dramatically expand access to high-quality early learning opportunities around the country what's so interesting sales at the state level this has absolutely become a bipartisan issue and you see great leadership by Republican and Democratic governors who in tough economic times are choosing to invest they are valuing this quite frankly our struggle now is to get more of our Republican friends here in Washington in the House and Senate to agree this is the right long-term investment I'm working very hard behind the scenes I'm hopeful in the not-too-distant future they will start to see a couple Republicans join with us to say this is the right thing for our children for strengthens families and ultimately for our country right all right and going to the other end of the spectrum when we talk about college and graduation resistors where we started our conversation the only thing that I hear a lot about is you know I hear this even from you know sometimes but I talk to be partnered with schools and like hey we a lot of our kids go to college then people are well they should be graduating from college and and we've talked about that today but it seems like even that really isn't the real end goal the real end goal is are they being productive and happy citizens and is some of what you're talking about also along that dimension it's not just because obviously a college can graduate everyone if it wants to it can pick in lower standards it's kind of what we talked about the state level but their hands how many just make sure that it doesn't happen just kind of window dressing yeah well we have to be very thoughtful comprehensive we're going to go out and travel the country and talk to college presidents and faculty members again as students and you know students themselves and parents and employers sort of get a sense of this but I think your your bigger thing anytime we're dumbing down standards whether it's higher ed or K to 12 or a child anytime we EE down standards we're just doing a great disservice to the folks we claim we're serving so that's a non-starter to begin with how you make sure you have a high bar how you make sure students are engaged civically sort of in a participant participatory democracy how they're you're thinking about giving back to the community what they're doing after college graduation rates yes we need more stem majors yes we need more computer science I was a very happy sociology major and we want to again just let people pursue their dreams whatever it might be liberal arts doesn't matter but we want them being in a position to be successful once they graduate and that for me is what we have to be looking at so long term and three it's not about salaries it's not about whatever you know obviously folks are going to education don't do that to make a million dollars they do it to make a difference but I want them going to education prepared to be a great educator and if they can do that and be successful then I feel good about that if folks are unprepared for the world of work whatever their dreams are that's when we have to challenge the status quo agree and I mean we have time really just for one final question so I'll make it a big picture question and you know we're talking a lot of things are a lot of exciting things going on there's technology there's access where do you think this is going to go and you know if we just dream a little bit if we if we look at the system 10 years from now 20 years from now is it going to look like the system we have now quite frankly I hope it looks very different from the system today that we have today because I just think we're not doing enough quite frankly as a nation so my hope not even 10 years out but five years out I'm inpatient here I don't want to wait I would love to see twice as many children have access to high-quality pre-k so dramatically expand access there I would like to see almost no classrooms of kissin and rows of 25 and 30 and I want to see students having a chance to learn individually and worked in small groups again using technology company and moving from seat time to competency we that has to happen I want to see graduation rates there are actually two three decade high which is encouraging we still have a long way to go graduation has to be the bare minimum if you drop out of high school today you're basically condemned to poverty and social failure so we have to get those dropout rates down to zero as fast as we can and then ultimately again high school graduates have to be college and career-ready but college has to be much more accessible and affordable and so if we can really drive down the cost of college not just a you know a couple percent but significantly so that that dream that aspiration becomes a reality families have that security um it is clearly an ambitious agenda but I frankly think we have to on all those fronts simultaneously and move as fast as we can and move again regardless of politics or ideology I could care less and that we just want to help our country we want to help our young people who want strengthen our families we should be able to work together on this um this is our national mission well know that that was a completely agree and Thank You secretary Duncan this was a real honor to be able to chat with you this morning did a great job you can be the next Oprah when you're done with thanks for the opportunity and thanks again your tremendous leadership I'm a big fan thank you