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so first of all I just want to thank Alon for coming hungry absolutely even have dinner and we didn't even feed you properly sorry to be a bit late oh no it came from the Tesla factory on in Fremont yes is it was something wrong there's always something we have to like at any given point there's always something wrong yes because there's just too many things going on yeah we one of the trickiest things about a car is that there's this thousands of individual components the thousands of unique components and even if one of those things is missing you can't make cars yeah I mean today's Fiasco was I kid you not we were missing $3.00 USB cable okay so we could not complete cars because lately the whole line was stopped yeah so essentially because you it's part of the wiring harness so you can't put the interior in without this cable hmm and so we can either make how much cars - an interior which means that you got to smell up in the yard the resale value would be not good well it can be done but it's been thing to go out of seat right and and it's way more it's it's way more in if it's what you can't you don't have a music movie production line they have to sent people out to hundreds of cars that are sort of sitting in the storage yard and so we this happens to be particular pernicious cable it's kind of like routed under the carpet and it's in a difficult place and it's literally three dollars and so we basically had to send people through out the barrier to go and buy USB cable like little RadioShack you like I'm a fries fries fries oh that's better than a hard time getting a USB cable right now price oh really one of them that's good and and so we were able to continue production and unrelated anecdote but essentially the suppliers in China and we had plan a and Plan B and plan a was like the normal supply chain process and but what the supplier did was instead of sending our parts it in their own package they grouped together with a bunch of other stuff or for other companies and sent that or via some extremely slow boat from China to LA and when it got to LA the other stuff didn't pass customs oh so they wouldn't they would let our stuff through because they put it in like a barrel of fruit or something I don't know I don't know what what they put it yeah they this something that customs didn't like when the paperwork wasn't in order or whatever so it got stuck there for for like a couple weeks yeah and then we had plan B just like so we called them said look you've got to air freight some of these cables there's little cables yeah to us and we talked to their US subsidiary and ordered order from the US subsidiary who then communicated China but then because this was another batch of pot so it was kind of double the order exceeded the credit limit that we had oh yeah you got a set bounced off with a credit limit so they didn't ship it fascinating so so so someone's losing their job now this is not right no no you shouldn't you should fire it it's Emmy it's pretty farcical Oh anyway so it's coming like tonight at 11:00 p.m. or something Wow and these things are happening like all the time this is like an unusual circumstance yeah that's that's like one example but there's many things like that so I guess I mean that's actually a really good example because that kind of leads into what I've always been fascinated by a lot of what you're doing is well I guess it well I'll start with how did you get into this I mean you know in cars into cars into taking over NASA into well not taking over NASA of being a contractor for for for NASA record yes yeah over now so you're not taking over NASA they're an independent organization the the but you are becoming a major provider of services for NASA obviously of kind of internet payments and payments generally I mean these are very three completely different spaces I think a lot of people would not take someone seriously if they had a business plan in one of these right sorry whoa oh yeah you take picture time what was your I mean what did you always think you were going to be doing this or when did it dawn on you that you would I to revolutionize three industries well when I was in college I didn't actually expect to do it so it was not like this is some long fulfill of expectation but but when I was in in college I thought about what were the areas that would most spectacle humanity in my opinion and the three areas were the Internet sustainable energy and space exploration particularly humanity becomes a multi-planet species you know there's kind of like a pretty substantial bifurcation in our sort of future if we're either out there among stars or multiple planets or if were confined to earth until some obviously eventual extinction event yeah not that I'm pessimistic about life on Earth I mean I think so because are likely to be good but even more likely to be good yeah by far Yellowstone's due for an explosion every 107 right exciting side ways about that yeah yeah there's everything it's been 700,000 since right right but yeah yeah supervolcano for those of you don't know it would envelop that well yeah no exactly I know exactly so so we really same book like right absolutely I mean something bad is bound to happen you should give if you give it enough time and civilization has been around for such a very short period of time that you know these these timescales seem like very long but on a evolutionary timescale a very short yeah million years on evolutionary timescale it was really not much and their hosts been around for four and a half billion years yeah so that's you know a very tiny tiny amount of time really but for us that would be I mean key imagine if if human civilization continued anything remotely like the current pace of technology advancement for a million years where would we be no I mean I mean I think we're either extinct or on a lot of planets yes we should there's the to option but given that I mean one that's that's kind of as epic as one can think about things I mean literally I mean how how did you make that concrete how does that turn into SpaceX Tesla and and PayPal well so I thought about those these things kind of in the abstract not for the expectation that I would actually have careers in those arenas but but I wanted to be involved in at least one of them and at first I thought the best bet was going to be electric cars and so the area that I was studying was advance capacitors right so essentially capacitors that have an energy density exceeding that of batteries because they have a very high power density but but a low energy in season we have a lecture to that oh yeah yes no we should have a panelist we get more later for yeah exactly so obviously if you could make capacitor that had anywhere near the intensity of battery and it was incredibly high power density as quasi infinite cycle and calendar life then you'd have an awesome solution for energy storage and mobile applications so that I was going to sort of work on that and try to leverage the equipment that was developed for advanced chip making photonics to create ultra precise capacitors at sort of this is where we're going to go into grad school yeah you had a brief stint at Stanford that's right and for the PhD in Applied Physics Applied Physics material side right this is what you were so even then you were thinking of kind of trying to do something in the space well X this was yeah this was to to work on energy storage solutions for electric cars yeah and and I'd actually worked at a company in Silicon Valley called Clinical Research which did advanced capacitors there there were electrolytic capacitors sort of and the problem and actually pretty good they had like the energy density of a lead acid battery which for a capacitor is that's a big deal but they used ruthenium tantalum oxide and as I think at the time there's maybe like one or two tons of ruthenium mine per year and so it's not a scalable solution but there I thought there could be some solid state solution like just like you know say using chip making equipment it's going to be the basic idea but one of those things where I wasn't sure if success was one of the possible outcomes you know and like you get it's difficult to bound that problem exactly and say okay so you're saying I wasn't I felt like this was a destined failure is another way to parse that scent but anyways I know I didn't think it would would fail but I wasn't sure that success was a possibility okay yes you know and generally you want to embark on something it's desirable to figure out if success is at least one of the possibilities right exactly because for sure failure is one of the possibilities yes but but ideally you want to try to bracket it and say success is in the envelope of outcomes yeah and or is it quite sure if that was the case I mean I think success on an academic level would have been quite likely because you can publish some useless paper and the most papers are pretty useless you know we have a few don't take it mean yes we have how many PhD papers are actually used by someone ever I mean it's good point centage wise it's not it's not good no and so so it could've been one of those outcomes where you add some leaves to the tree of knowledge yeah okay and then that leaf is nope it's not possible right they goes seven years mine so that's it so that was what one path and I was preferred to do that but then the internet was the inter came along and it's like okay but the internet I'm pretty sure success is one of the possible outcomes and it seemed like I could either do do sort of do a PhD and watch the internet happen or I could participate in a help bullet in some fashion you know put it like I just couldn't stand the idea of watching it happen yep yeah so that that's so I decided to put things on hold and start Internet company and that was kind of a we worked on integrating software maps and directions yellow pages kind of things and and we had as investors and customers that the media companies like New Times Company the night rotor this was just at the early stages and this was like late 1995 so it's really early stages it's really optic 8 absolutely and so then we you know we the the reason we worked with media companies because we had money like there was no advertising money in 95 right right in fact the idea of advertising internet seemed like a ridiculous people obviously not so ridiculous anymore but at the time it was it seemed like a very unlikely proposition and lot of the media companies weren't even sure that they should be online all right like what's the point of that and did you all think that PayPal was just going to be a you know simple little you know internet way or do you think it was going to turn into the major kind of transaction processing engine that it is right now I didn't expect PayPal's growth rate to be what it was you know so and that actually created major problems so it's not a PayPal on University Avenue know after the first month or so of course the website being active we had a hundred thousand customers really that that wow I didn't realize me I was naughty oh wow and how did it start how did people just even know to use it and I mean obviously both buyer and seller have to be involved yeah well the we started off first by offering people $20 if they open an account hmm and $20 if they referred anyone oh and then we dropped it to $10 and we dropped it to $5 as the network got bigger and bigger the value of the network itself exceeded any sort of carrot that we could offer how much they wanted you to spend with that kind of five ten twenty dollar incentive to get that critical mass going that was a fair amount I think was probably 60 or 70 million dollars oh okay so it was a substantial okay so we're not talking peanuts here yeah this is good to piss on your relatives game yeah it's a peanut to Google yes no that's right that's right yes man yes yes I mean like Google's got 50 billion apples got I don't know 150 billion some crazy amount of money laughs yeah - yeah yeah so it's not about land well yeah I know that I didn't realize I didn't realize that was so cool - would be 500 million dollars so you know that's point 1 percent of Google's that's true you're right that's it expensive it's relative sensitive to them it's probably pretty inexpensive that's right and and and then we did it we just did a bunch of things to decrease the friction because and it's just like bacteria in a petri dish yeah so the what do you want to do is try to have one customer generate you know that like two customers yeah okay or something like that maybe three customers ideally and then you want that that to happen really fast and if you probably Madol model it just like bacterial growth in in in in a petri dish and it will just expand very quickly until it hits the side of the sides of the pantry - yeah slows down and then after PayPal then I mean to some degree you know the especially us in Silicon Valley we can understand the internet we know people I mean PayPal's obviously of a scale that you know is is noteworthy but then SpaceX just seems really you know like well what how did you decide that I'm definitely going to do that and then like what's the first thing that you do like how do you even like go out like I don't even know how to start trying to make a rocket company well neither that I really the and in fact the first three launches failed so so as though it was like you know spot-on it's like what I did not hit the bull's eye but but even getting the point that you're launching rockets I don't even know how to like how do you get there and like what did you do on like one how did you decide and then what did you do on day one like who did you call or do you write a plan do you start I don't know no actually I mean the or PayPal is or other SpaceX is is that I was trying to figure out why that we'd not send any people to Mars because the obvious next step after after Apollo was to send people to Mars so but but what in fact happened was that we said a few people to the moon and then we didn't send anyone after that to the Moon or Mars or anything but if you'd ask people in 1969 what would 2013 look like they would they would have said there'll be a base on the moon there would be we would have at least had some people to Mars and maybe they'd even be a base on Mars would be like orbiting space hotels and they billed us or some stuff in space yeah and and and that's where people expect it and if you said well actually the United States in 2013 will not be able to send anyone to orbit but I'll tell you what will exist is that there'll be this device yoga and you park it that's like the size of it it's more than a deck of cards that has access to all the world's information and you can talk to anyone on planet earth yeah and even if you're like in you know some remote village somewhere as long as there's something called the Internet they would know what that means of course then you'd be able to communicate to anyone instantly and have access to two or locate humanity's knowledge good like [ __ ] there's no way that that's going to be right right right and yet we all have that and and space is not happening so I try to figure out like what was deal here and this was 2001 it was just a friend of mine asked me what I'm going to do after PayPal I said well you know we're interested in space but I don't think is anything that an individual could do in space because the province of government is actually large government but I'm curious as to when we're going to same someone tomorrow so I went to the NASA website try to figure out look where's the place that tells you that I couldn't find that so they're all like even I'm like bad look at the website or they have a trouble website because surely there must be that should be a big date yeah yeah like yeah this is but this is real a front page and then ice-covered actually that NASA had no plans to send people to Mars and or even really back to the moon yeah so so this was really disappointing I thought well maybe this is a question of national will like have have do we do we need to get people excited about space again and and try to get NASA a bigger budget and then that then then we would send people to Mars and and so I started researching the area becoming more familiar with space reading lots of books and countless idea to do so called Mars Oasis which was to send a small greenhouse it was seized in dehydrated gel that land upon landing you hydrate the gel you have green plants on a red background and the public is the public responds to precedents and supporters yeah so it's the first life on Mars the furthest that life's ever traveled and you'd have this money shot of green plants on a red background yeah so that that seemed like it would get people pretty excited yeah so that I start getting into this and try to figure out okay well kind of afford to build the spacecraft because I add some money from Azrael to PayPal but it had to fit within that budget and I figured we have to do two missions because if we if we only do one and it failed that it might have like the opposite effect but you are willing to bet the farm so to speak on this yeah well yeah I figured like I was willing to spend half the money that I go from PayPal yeah with no expectation of return right because I thought this is just something that was pretty important and yeah I'm like it seems like it could spend half of money on PayPal on this and I be if that got NASA a bigger budget and results in us going to Mars that would be a good pretty good outcome and when your friends can or your family came up to you said look you know there's nations that can't do this you know your guy but you have some resources what did you say or do or think well so um I had a lot of friends mine tried to talk me out of starting a rocket company because they thought it was crazy and what friend of mine maybe watch a video of rock is blowing up and you know just lots of people thought it was a really crazy idea and there was some people that try to start rocket companies not succeeded and that they try to talk me out of it and but the thing is that with the premise were talking me out of it was what we think you're going to lose the money that you invest I was like well that was my expectation anyway so I don't really mind if I lose you know I mean not mine but I mean is so it's not like I was trying to figure out the rank-ordered best way to invest money right on that basis you know chose space right it's not like that's yeah I thought wow you're looking at like money money market bonds triple-a by rocket compass that you weren't like a real estate I really got a you know invest in shoemaking and and watch this is just highest ROI yeah excess that is not what I was good but wasn't the premise it's thought that it was important that humanity expand beyond Earth and we weren't doing that so maybe there was something I could do to kind of spur I swear that on and then I I was able to compress the costs of the spacecraft everything down to a relatively manageable number and I got stuck on the rocket the the u.s. rockets were way too expensive I ended up going to Russia food Russia three times to negotiate purchase of a an ICBM that try to buy to the biggest ICBM is the Russian fleet in 2001 or 2002 and actually negotiated I'll just let that statement stand I might even get um I mean that's and shine after like who did you call yellow pages yeah I some I get like I mean how does this and I don't get too much in the wit but I am because this is one particular thing you are you decide at some point you need to buy an ICBM yeah well actually I first I try to buy just a normal launch vehicle that they use for satellites right or too expensive I see I see the Boeing Delta 2 would have cost 65 million dollars right each and so two would have been hundred thirty and then like whoa okay that breaks my budget right there yeah and and try to negotiate with them and that was not how much does an ICBM go for I'm curious what's the market rate for one of those um well this was right at the fall it might have gone up yeah yeah it's gone up a lot right but in 2001 it would have been about ten million dollars each for so 2 into 20 and then and then I thought I could get the rest of the mission down to also around 10 per dual mission with like two identical launches to an illegal spacecraft and you know for flek referee 40 million dollars and so I thought that okay I can do that and but you must have had some like you know rocket scientists advising you at this point I mean this is hounds like you were Syria mean you were yeah yeah engaged a bunch of circuit consultants sign right and kind of so to get familiar with the space industry and but then after the third trip to Russia I can trust that I was actually wrong about that my first premise that that there was a lack of will in fact I think that there's a tremendous amount of will in the United States for Space Exploration cozinha States is essentially a nation of explorers I mean it's a distillation of the human spirit of exploration so of course it was quite so easy to think that that that people like motivation but what people don't want to think is that okay going saying people tomorrow is going to be so expensive that they'll have to give up like health care or something right yeah I'm gonna do that so it's going to be think it's good it's going to be that going to Mars is not going to cause some meaningful to drop in their standard living right yeah so if it's like maybe a quarter of a percent or half percent of GDP so I'm like that was palatable anyway so it said so I thought okay it's not really going to maybe matter that much if I do this mission because what really matters is is having a way so so I was wrong I thought I thought I hoped it was it wasn't enough will but there actually was was plenty of will if people thought there was a way so so then I said okay well I need to work on the way how hard is it really to make a rocket in history historically all Rockets been expensive so therefore in the future more Rockets will be expensive but actually that's not true if you say what is rocket made it and say okay it's made of aluminum titanium some copper it's common fiber if you want to go that direction and and you can break down and say what is what is the for material cost of all these components and if you have them stacked on the floor and could wave magic wand so that the cost of rearranging the atoms were zero then what would the cost of the rocket be yeah I was like wow okay it's really small it's like you know two percent of water so clearly be in how the atoms are arranged right the the other so you got to figure out sort of okay how can we get the atoms in the right shape much more efficiently yeah and so I had a series of meetings on Saturdays with people that were somewhat working at the big aerospace companies just to try to figure out is there some catch here that I'm not negotiating and I can figure it doesn't suit for any catch so started SpaceX and and you and you ended up though I mean you had some failures but obviously some huge successes what was the cost that you were able to build this rocket for relative to what they were being built for before so excellent see the foot for the Falcon one which is the first rocket we both and the first three flights did not make it in fact yeah I mean we got it sort of progressively further but like the first rocket like came in cracked landed maybe couple yards away from the launch site and get tiny fragments so yeah anyway that that that rocket ended up costing around six million dollars Wow compared to other rockets in that class which were about 225 million allow so significant yeah like a quarter Wow Wow and but but there's an even better step beyond that which is to make rockets reusable so right now that that is around around what what our comparison prices excluding the refurbished ICBMs so if you say bullying rocket from new how does the SpaceX rocket compared to a rocket from Boeing Lockheed it's about a quarter of the price and however if we make it reusable then it can be at tours magnitude cheaper two orders of magnitude cheaper or 100th the price that's right so so I mean enter and I for you over here for volley go away today we could even order they say oh oh what what what and I've seen some you are doing like these vertical landings yeah like like literally out of like the 1950s like like sci-fi movies yep and that's what you're talking about yeah yeah essentially the rock needs to come back and land at the launch site and then reload propellant take off a game like an airplane and how far do you think we are just reloading from that like when do you think like you know your best guess is when we'll actually see that happening I'm hopeful we can do it next year okay yeah let's we got we got some ambitious stuff at Khan Academy for the next year Jason we can compare we're redesigning the site you know right we've been working on it for a long time I should say SpaceX has been around for 11 years and thus far we have not recovered any rockets we've recovered the spacecraft from orbit so that that that was great but none of our attempts to recover the rocket stages have been successful the rocket stages have voice blown up basically on reentry yeah now we think we've we think we figured out why that that was the case and it's a tricky thing because Earth's gravity is really quite strong and with advanced and advanced rocket you can do maybe two to three percent if you lift off master orbit typically and then reusability subtracts 2 to 3 percent mmm because you have to so then you feel like nothing 208 or negative right and that's also helpful and so the trick is to try to shift that from say to 3 percent in an expendable configuration put to make the rocket mass efficiency engines efficiency and so forth so much better that it moves to around maybe three and a half to four percent in an experiment configuration and then try to get clever about the reusability elements and try to drop that to around the to one and a half to two percent level so you have a net payload to over to about two percent but you're doing it at one and two orders of magnitude cheaper yeah absolutely because so our Falcon 9 rocket costs about sixty million dollars but the propellant cost which it's mostly oxygen as two-thirds oxygen one one-third fuel is only about $200,000 Wow it's much like a like a 747 cost yeah much to refuel our rocket as it is to refuel 747 you know within Airport pretty close especially so what happen if I yell are successful and you'll have proven yourself to be multiple successful log kind of these audacious things in the past I mean what happens I mean that seems like it's what happens the next 5-10 years in the space industry if y'all are successful there I mean do we get to Mars do we do we have kind of market forces commercialization of space starting to happen yeah see well the first step is that we need to earn enough money to keep going as a company so we have to make sure that we're launching satellites to the commercial satellites like I broadcast communications mapping in a government satellites that do scientific missions earth-based cycle or space-based missions GPS satellites that kind of thing and and then also servicing the space station transfer cargo to infer on the space station which we've done a few times and and then taking people to in front of space station so we've got a recruit a service the sort of needs earth-based needs to launch satellites and that pays the bills but in doing that keep improving the technology to the point where we can make full reusability work and we have sufficient scale and sophistication to be able to take people to Mars Wow and so you think this is going to be a reality what's your best guess when we're gonna have someone on Mars I think I'm probably got 12 years 12 that's despotic and you think it'll be a round trip it will be yeah it will just be able some type of permanent colony on on Mars yeah I think it's probably round trip Wow so for I mean it's not for sure I could I could talk about this for I mean the people know I really aspiration will be around from ya know this this is yeah this is mind blowing and I'm and then on Tesla I mean Tesla is obviously from from our from my vantage success I mean it's I mean what do you think is in that into well one I mean I'll ask kind of the same question what did you think you this is something that was G M and Toyota and these massive multi-billion dollar organizations have been trying you know what gave you the confidence to kind of pursue it and and now that it seems to be a huge success where do you think this industry is going to be in the next 5-10 years yes so with with Tesla the goal is try to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport I think would happen anyway could just out of necessity but because we have a none price to externality in the cost of gasoline we were pricing in the environmental effects of co2 in the oceans and atmosphere that that's causing the normal market forces to not function properly and so the goal of Tesla is to try to act as a catalyst to accelerate that those sort of normal forces that the normal sort of market reaction that would occur we're trying to have a catalytic effect on that yeah and and try to make it happen I don't know maybe 10 years sooner than it would otherwise occur yeah that's that's the goal of Tesla so that's the reason we're making electric cars and not any other kind of car and we also supply power trains to Toyota and to Mercedes and maybe to other car companies in the future to accelerate their production of electric vehicles so that that's that's the sort of goal there and so far it's you know working out pretty well I mean I just saw a news report earlier today that y'all are sold more to Model S's then you are leading that segment of the industry that the Mercedes s-class the BMW 7 Series or the Lexus ls400 or whatever it is yeah actually that that seems to be the case and it's a yeah I didn't realize they sold so a few cars in that segment that's we don't sell that many cars right so 5000 quarter you know twelve out here they seem like you know ever yeah I mean well this is our home yeah yeah yeah some team you know so it's a bit we bet us all have the bearing yeah yeah yeah yeah no but that's and well I mean it seems similar thing I mean what how did you start what gave you the confidence and I mean do you see yourselves I mean it's kind of a major automotive mainstream brand in 5-10 years all the way down to kind of the you know the competing with the Honda Accords and civics yeah I mean I mean I goal is not just it's not sort of to become a big brand or to compete with Honda Civics but rather to advance the course electric vehicles so we're just going to keep making more and more electric cars and driving the price point down until the industry is very firmly electric you know like maybe half of all cause made our electric or something like that which is not to say we expect to make all half of course we we want to just have that catalytic effect until at least that occurs I think the point which there's you know we're approaching half bull new cos made our electric then I think that's I would consider that to be kind of the victory condition Wow and and so the faster we can bring that day but the better one would be your guess when that happens well I made a bet with someone about three years ago that it would be sooner than twenty years so it's 17 years from now but right but that's I think that's conservative I think is probably you know it may move thirteen or fourteen years Wow right right about the time happen like when we run to Mars right it'll be it'll be exciting exciting time yeah absolutely true those it just could yeah exactly as this thing about that it was like this time K frames are kind of coincident yeah yeah I mean the nature of new technology adoption is a test to follow an s-curve so so what usually happens is people under predicted in the beginning as people tend to extrapolate on straight line and and then they'll over predict it kind of at the midpoint and because there's there's late adopters and then you know it'll actually take longer than people think at the midpoint but much shorter than people think at the beginning yeah yeah and yeah but I'm pretty excited about how things going it's and in fact I think I think that the pace of technology improvement is in energy storage luxury storages is really moving faster than anyone thinks Wow Wow I got it one more we doing on time where's Esther uh 9 o'clock so how much time do you have we like it I can swear another 1500 okay okay so I'll finish with one last question then we'll open it up I mean what advice do you have for us at Khan Academy I'm working really great so yeah that's morning if you have advice for me oh no well yeah I mean it seems like you're doing they're doing an amazing job of really super leveraged you know I mean obvious mall team and you're having a dramatic effect on half these people don't even work here so like it's even yeah right it's right so it's I think very impressive thing you're doing to spread knowledge and understanding you know throughout the world the universe assumes right there isn't you if you follow up your end of the bargain yeah yeah I mean it's actually kind of funny you know if you think like what is education like you're basically downloading data and algorithms into your brain and it's it's actually amazingly bad in conventional education because like it shouldn't be like this huge chore so you're making it way way better but I mean I think I think a lot of things that I would say it you've probably heard a hundred times and in fact are if not doing like the more you can gamify the process of learning the better like for my kids I do not have to encourage them to play video games yeah okay I'd like pry them from their hands it's like the crack yes yes like drop that crack needle yeah yeah you have that problem at your house too yeah same thing the crack is good so it's yeah it's it's it's agree that you can make somehow learning like a game it's better and I think unfortunately like a lot of education is very vaudvillian and you've got someone standing up there kinda of lecturing at people and they've done the same lecture twenty years in a row and they're excited about it and that lack of enthusiasm you know is conveyed the students that they're not very excited about it don't know why they're there like why are we learning this stuff we don't even know why in fact I think a lot of things people learn probably there's no point in learning them because it that they never use them in the future because who's going to launch a rocket into space I mean that's just like yeah exactly that never happens well you have to say like feel I think don't stand back and say well why are we teaching people these things and we should tell them probably why we're teaching those things because the like kids just in school kinda puzzled as to why they're there I don't think yeah and I think if you can explain the why of things then that makes a huge difference to people's motivation then they understand the understan purpose yeah so I think that's pretty important and just make make it entertaining but I think just in general like a conventional education should be massively overhauled I'm sure you very much agree with that but yeah so it's like I mean the analogy I have sometimes uses like we've seen but like Batman like the Chris Nolan movie like the recent one and it's pretty freakin awesome right and and you've got incredible special effects great script multiple takes amazing actors and great sound and it's very it's very engaging but if you would instead say okay that even if you have the same script so at least it's the same script and you said okay now that script instead of having movies we're going to have those that that script performed by the local town troupe alright okay and so every in every small town in America if movies didn't exist they would have to then recreate the Dark Knight right you know with like home like home so in costumes isn't like you know just the stage and not getting their lines quiet and not really looking like you know the kid the people in the movie and and no special effects I mean I would suck be terrible not that but that's right yeah very very that's education that's it so so with that and I bought just all of you guys for hogging up all the time because obviously I could talk for hours about this stuff but we do have time I think five or ten minutes for for a handful of questions if none of you all have any I have about nine more but yes yeah so I noticed I picked up two kind of themes from from what you were discussing one was somewhat audacious goals and the other was I don't think I heard use the word profit and anything that you spoke about you seem to be each each thing is pointed out like reinvigorating in industry or bringing back space missions how much of your success do you attribute to having really audacious goals or versus just not being focused on the short-term you know money coming in or other investors unfortunately I I when one does have to be focused on the short term and money coming in when creating company because otherwise the company will for die so the the I think that a lot of times people think like creating company is going to be fun I would say it's not it's really not that fun when there are periods of fun and there are periods of where it's just awful and particularly if you CEO of the company you actually have a distillation of all the worst problems in a company there's no point in spending your time on things that are going right so you're only spend on things on your time on things that are going wrong and there are things that are going wrong that other people can't can't take care of so you're like the worst you have a filter for the crappers problems in the company most pernicious and painful problem so I wouldn't say it's it's I think you have to feel quite compelled to do it and have a fairly high pain threshold and there's a friend of mine who says like starting companies like staring at the abyss and eating glass and there's some truth to that we're starting to the best part is that you're going to be constantly facing the extermination of the company because most most startups fail it's like 90% fugly 99% of Starkville so I so you that that's the staring in to give this part you can't so constantly saying okay let's if I don't get this right the company will die should be quite right for quite stressful and and then the eating glass part is you've got you've got to do you've got to do the problems you got to sell you're going to work on the problems at the company needs you to work on that promise you want to work on and so that the that's you and I've working on problems that that you'd really wish you weren't working on and so that's the eating glass part then that goes on for a long time so how do you keep your focus on the big picture when you're constantly faced with we could be out of business in a month well it's just a very small percentage of mental energies on the on the big picture like you know you know you know where you generally heading for and and the factual path is going to be some sort of zig zaggy thing in that direction and try not to deviate too far from the path that that you want to be on but you're going to have to do that some degree but I don't want to I don't to diminish the I mean I think the product the profit motive is it is a is a good one if the rules of an industry are properly set up so there's only fundamentally wrong with profit in fact profit just means that people are paying you more for whatever you're doing then you're spending to create it that's a good thing and if you're not if that's not the case then you'll be out of business and rightfully so you're not adding enough value now there are cases of course where people will do bad things in order to achieve profit but but that's actually quite unusual I mean because because usually the rules are set up mostly correctly like not completely with mostly correctly well I think we have time for one one more question Joel the same yeah an important one okay very good yeah okay so a few months ago UT is typer loop and we haven't heard anything since so first of all a few of us engineers we're talking about it I think we have a few ideas if you need help but if you feel comfortable maybe you could tell us a little bit more I was reading about the California high-speed rail and it was quite depressing because California taxpayers are going to be on the hook to build the most expensive high speed rail per mile in the world and be slowest which is those are not the superlatives you want yeah and and it's like them like we're in California we make super high-tech stuff why are we going to be spending 100 and not now the estimates are around a hundred billion dollars for us something that will take two hours to go from LA to San Francisco I'm like okay well I can get our plane to do that in 45 minutes it doesn't make much sense and isn't there some better way to do it than that so so if you just say okay well what would you ideally want in a transportation system you'd say okay well you'd want something that relative to existing modes of transportation is faster let's say twice as fast costs half as much per ticket can't crash is immune to weather and is you know you can make the whole thing like self-powering with like solar panels or something like that that would create that would be that'd be great yeah good outcome yes and so what would do that and what's the fastest way short of inventing teleportation that you could do something like that it's some of the elements that solution of fairly obvious and some of it some of them are not so obvious and then the details The Devil's in the details of actually making something like that work but I came to the conclusion that there is something like that they could work and would be practical is this the around evacuated tubes the the vacuum tubes the old bank that it something like that yeah I haven't been more public with what this is no although I did say that once Tesla was profitable that I would talk more about it but we haven't on our burning school yet so I think I should probably do it yeah after the earnings cool and the things like I kind of strung out on the things that I'm doing so adding another yeah like doesn't you know it's learning the guitar you could get all sorts of things right I tried learning the violin yes by the way a hard thing to learn yeah that's launching Rockets electric cars yeah revolutionising transportation yet I calculated island at all very horrible if you think about the future you want a future that's better than the past and so if we had something like the Hyperloop that would be like cool like you'd look forward to the day that that was working yeah and and it's something like that even if it was only he who only was in one place you know from LA San Francisco or New York to DC or something like that then it would be cool enough that it would be like a tourist attraction yeah like a riot yeah yeah so even if some of the initial assumptions didn't work out the economics didn't work out quite as one expected we like cool enough like I want to journey that place just to just to ride on it they're gonna be pretty cool and so that's I think how if you cope with the new technology it should feel like that you should really like if you told it to an objective person would they look forward to the day that that thing became available and ever like you know be pretty exciting to do something like that or or an aircraft like I thought it was really disappointing one that when the Concorde was take out mission and there was no supersonic transport available and of course the 787 has had some issues yeah so but it's but the thing is the 787 even the best-case scenario is only a slightly better version of the triple 7 yeah and it's like okay I'm not that exciting so they're there this is something that you are working on and and one day in the not too far future or there's some plans or consultants involved or something um I made some phone calls to Russia every like this like it's sort of percolating away and then I'm gonna actively think about it but then there were some new elements of that I think oh well you know this would make it better passing it on ya know well I mean I think I'm speaking for everyone this is like the most epic possible conversation one could have over the course of an hour and I think all of us would love to chat with you for hours on end but thank you so much I mean I know you have a lot of free time so it probably wasn't that big of a deal for you to come here but yeah it was a huge honor and I think it inspired all of us to go out and change the world and the universe cool thank you thank you very much